M20F-1968

Nickel and Dime patch - likely wet riveted - This is the only proper repair, unless you want to change the skin of course. John Breda

Various configurations are used for the same seat rail extrusion across all models. On some the "T" of the cross section of the rail is milled so the seat can come off the track sooner. This depends on the console in the airplane in some cases. The amount of milled relief and the number of holes (provided they are the same size and distance apart, does not degrade the structure, as the same variations are seen from the factory across different models. The critical issue is that the two holes must be directly across from each other (perhaps laid-out with a framing square, scribe tool na d machinist's dye). If they are not exactly placed, the two pins will not latch together and the seats will not work well. You can get a DER, but I do not believe that any IA would not accept this modification without a DER sign-off given that the same seat rails are used in all Mooney aircraft. John Breda

It cost me $8,000.00 to completely rebuild a stock J model cowling to new condition, including replacing the internal metal reinforcement parts and configuring it for the Turbo Normalizer. There is no appreciable speed gains with the Loprest Cowling from what I can tell. My F/reborn as a J airplane is 160 kts at 10,000ft at 75% power, 168 kts full power at 10,000 ft, 175-178 kts at 75% power at 17,500 ft, all 100 ROP. I doubt a J with the Lopresti Cowling does any better. You can not put a turbonormalizer into the Lopresti Cowling should you want to. It has been tried and the air inlets are too small. Also, there is no metal internal reinforcements at all in their cowling (near the edges were the fasterner holes are drilled), so I would expect the fastener holes will wear much quicker than the reinforced J cowling. Just my $0.02. John Breda

I have a 68 F with all of the J model airframe modifications except for inner gear doors. Mine is a 160 kt airplane at 75% power and 100 ROP, a 168 kt airplane at full power and ROP, both at 10,000 ft. At 17,500 ft it is a 175-178 kt airplane at 100 ROP and 75% power. LOP at the same altitude, subtract about 5-6 kts. Somewhere here I posted a picture of my panel verifying some of these numbers. I has a twisted wing, but it really is not a "twist." The last wing section is set at a slight downward angle, with the outboard leading edge about 1 1/2" lower than normal. The line from the tip leading edge to the next lap joint is straight. There is no recognized loss of speed. Theoretically the stall is more benign, at least that was the intend (to keep tho outboard section of the wing flying despite an inboard stall). John Breda

I have a set of the clamps you mention, I just need to find them. They were in a mid-60's E model that I took some parts from. Then I came upon a 1998 Ovation and proceeded to install the entire interior from that airplane, including seats and seatbelts. My installation is likely not within your reach since the retraction reel attachment plates are welded to the steel cage near the floor and the retraction reels are bolted to those plates. I doubt you would be able to do that welding without the airplane disassembled. I have the most modern Amsafe buckles which require opening the top to 90° before allowing the buckle to release. I use these because a common problem in the vintage airplanes with a Johnson bar is that the pilot bumps the buckle and accidentally releases the seatbelt when the gear is put down. The extra throw of the modern Amsafe buckles minimizes that problem. I have some extra fixed seatbelts that use the most modern Amsafe buckles which I may be willing to sell. I'll take a look for the shoulder belt tube clamps since I know I have them...somewhere. John Breda

My belly pan gets cleaned when it is removed but is more difficult to do when it is left on the airplane. I have some ceramic coatings that I was planning to use on the airplane generally, but am considering using it in the next day or two specifically on the belly pan now that I have it off, to make the surface slicker and less amenable to the accumulation of exhaust waste. For those that have use these products, would you recommend such a coating on the belly pan? My concern is once you use any of the ceramic type products it's harder to do any kind of painting or rework because of the coating how it changes the paint. However, the benefits likely outweigh the risks. Any thought? John Breda

Fuel injected is better. Less problems and has been stable for me but my plane is as new as it can be for a 1968 F. No carb heat needed in an E. Going into any Vintage plane (unless you know that it has been completely cared for on a regular basis with little to no deferred maintenance) you cannot be certain what maintenance and repairs you will need to do. That is essentially why people around here repeatedly say, buy a plane that has been flow regularly. I took the opposite approach and bought a plane that had no damage history, not corrosion, but had sat in a hangar for 26 years. I knew going in that everything needed to be rebuilt and planned it that way. (Finding reliable people to do that in the mid 2000's was a different story as everyone was working, until 2008 when every one in aviation was not working.) At a minimum you want to make sure the things that you can not fix do not need fixing. The rest is just time, money and a test of your mechanical abilities to help out when needed. You need to decide whether you are buying a plane to fly or to repair/rebuild. I am an engineering minded person so I enjoyed the planning and rebuild process. But, you need to have a sense of what can go wrong from the beginning and plan for it. It is much better to expend the effort to find a Vintage bird that is reliable, than one that will constantly surprise you with maintenance squawks. John Breda

With one exception, the lowly turbo-normalized F or J. John Breda

Using Dragon Software is many times not the best. The corrected version is: I changed out my hydraulic flap pump about a year ago but it was not acting correctly. The first pump of the day was ineffective, then it acted normally for the rest of the day with four pumps to lock-out as it should be. However, after several days of sitting the problem reoccurred. I had my belly pan off recently and decided to readdress this issue. I tried attach a pressure pot to the aft end of the system by removing the cap on the T fitting and pushing hydraulic fluid forward. With this procedure alone the system became unresponsive and there was clearly air in the flap pump. I went back to the manuals, reviewed what I had done in the past, and decided to make connection hoses so that I had options pushing hydraulic fluid from the front to the back, as well as the back to the front. These consisted of appropriate hoses to the various AN fittings. I also installed a pressure gauge onto my pressure pot. The Mooney suggests pushing fluid in the 30 to 40 psi range. The manual states that fluid should be pushed from the front, and exit from the open T fitting at the rear actuator. I pushed fluid into the reservoir fill connection (with the overflow stopped off) and collected about 1/2 gallon of clear hydraulic fluid with no air into a gallon glass jug. I closed the system and tried to operate the flap pump lever, but it was inoperative again and acted like there was air within the pump. A year ago I tried pushing fluid from the rear at the actuator forward and also was unable to fill (prime) the pump. I spoke with Robert Brown (former manager Laser) who rebuilt hydraulic flat pumps when he was at Lasar. He indicated to me that his last ditch procedure was to remove the inbound hose at the flap pump filling the front 1/2 of the hydraulic system, in a retrograde fashion starting at the pump. I had already made a hose which I could attach to my pressure pot and which allowed me to to connect to the pump end of the inbound hose to the pump. It was quite simple to disconnect the hose, some hydraulic fluid leaked out but I was able to quickly connect my pressure pot. I pushed fluid forward collecting it from the reservoir drain tube. I collected about 1/2 of clear hydraulic fluid without air. I disconnected my pressure pot from the inbound hose and quickly reconnected the inbound hose it to the flap pump. I tried the flap system by pumping the flap lever and the flaps worked. The retraction speed was off but that is adjusted by the large, anteriorly located screw and locknut on the flap pump. Turning the screw counterclockwise increases the speed and turning the screw clockwise slows the speed. The screw end is directed as at an aluminum seat and turning the screw creates a calibrated leak (separate from the inflow and outflow ball bearing/spring loaded check valves) returning fluid back to the anterior part os the system. Lifting up on the Flap Handle in the cockpit moves fluid into the hydraulic chamber in the pump, and pushing down on the handle pressurizes the rear hose to the rear actuator.. The ideal goal is 12 seconds of retraction. The screw is very sensitive and after several tries I was jumping between 5-6 seconds and 12-24 seconds with just a turn of about 5-10 degrees. After several tries, holding the slotted screw placed through a box wrench holding the locking nut, I was able to adjust the screw and finally tighten the assembly without a problem. My final retraction speed is 12 seconds. The flap handle operation is exactly 4 pumps to lock-out which is what is expected to occur. It seems that Robert Brown's procedure works. I'm still not sure why pushing fluid from the front fails to prime the pump. There are two one-way ball valves which are oriented to allow fluid to pass from front to back, but it has not worked to prime the pump successfully. Their are reports that you can push hydraulic fluid from the rear actuator forward to the reservoir, but in order to do that one needs to back off on the large adjustment screw creating a larger leak for the fluid to flow through the pump and into the anterior part of the system. I believe that that would likely work and would bypass the problem of attempting to flow fluid against the two check valves, but I just didn't need to try that because opening the system in the middle and backfilling from the pump forward worked. I think what I was doing by this method allowed the fluid placed in the anterior part of the system to prime the pump once reconnected. I do not yet understand why 35 psi did not prime the pump but gravity filling from the anterior hose did. When adjusting the speed and trying to get all the air out of the system, I operated the flap handle placing the flaps down, which draws fluid into the hydraulic pump from the front part of the system and pressurizes the rear part of the system causing the actuator to move. With each adjustment, I left the flaps fully in the down position and just cracked open the at the actuator so that it dripped hydraulic fluid. There was no suggestion of air in the system. Then I tightened the AN cover on the tee at the actuator. With the flaps still down, I added more hydraulic fluid to the reservoir with the pressure pot until I collected more than a pint of clear air free fluid from the overflow tube. I then disconnected my pressure pot and closed the system (operating configuration). I cycled the flaps and then I repeated this procedure several times. The system now seems to be reliable and operates consistently with 12 seconds of retraction and for four pumps to lock-out. The Mooney manual information is not helpful nor is it clearly written. Since this procedure works, I think this will be my go to procedure in the future. Using hoses with hard connections and fittings from pressure pot and drain hoses with appropriate fitting to collect fluid into collection jars cuts down on the mess immensely. The open ends of the hose should be ideally submersed in an inch or so of hydraulic fluid so it will not accidentally suck air into the system. It took some time to sort though the details of how the system works. Whatever you do, make sure the reservoir remains full as it does not hold that much fluid. The brake lines come off of the reservoir at a lower height, so you will loose flaps before loosing brakes should there be a leak in the system and the reservoir fluid level is low. Make sure the reservoir remains full. I understand full means different things depending upon your reservoir type. The work was done with the supervision of an A&P/IA. Hope this is helpful. John Breda

Of course, work was done with my A&P/IA's supervision. We just wanted to post the procedure as it is not documented anywhere, and the typical procedures that are written has been ineffective more than not. John Breda

I changed out my hydraulic flap pump about a year ago but it was not acting correctly. The first pump of the day was ineffective, then it acted normally for the rest of the day with four pumps to lockup as it should. However, after several days of sitting the problem occurred. I had my belly pan off recently and decided to readdress this issue. I tried attach a pressure pot to the aft end of the system by removing the cap on the T fitting and pushing hydraulic fluid forward. With this procedure alone the system became unresponsive and there was clearly air in the flap pump. I went back to the manuals, reviewed what I had done in the past, and decided to make connection hoses so that I had an option pushing hydraulic fluid from the front to the back, as well as the back to the front. These consisted of appropriate hoses to the various AN fittings. I also installed a pressure gauge onto my pressure pot. The Mooney suggests pushing fluid in the 30 to 40 psi range. The manual states that fluid should be pushed from the front, end exit and collected from the open T fitting at the rear actuator. I pushed fluid into the reservoir fill connection (with the overflow stopped off) and collected about 1/2 gallon of clear hydraulic fluid with nowhere into a gallon jug. I close the system and try to operate the flap pump lever, but again it was inoperative and acted like there was air within the pump. A year ago I tried pushing fluid from the rear at the actuator forward and also was unable to fill the pump. I spoke with Robert Brown (former manager Laser) were rebuilt hydraulic flat pumps for Lasar when he was there. He indicated to me that his last ditch procedure was to remove the inbound hose at the flap pump and fill the front 1/2 of the hydraulic system starting at the pump forward. I had already made a hose which I could attach to my pressure pot which allowed me to to connect to the pump end of that hose. It was quite simple to disconnect the hose, some hydraulic fluid leaked out but I was able to quickly connect my pressure pot. I pushed fluid forward collecting it from the reservoir drain tube. I collected about 1/2 of clear hydraulic fluid without air. I disconnected my pressure part from the inbound hose and quickly reconnected it to the flat pump. After disconnecting everything I tried the flap system by pumping the flap lever and the flats worked. The retraction speed was off but that is adjusted by a large and anteriorly located screw and locknut on the flap pump. Turning the screw counterclockwise increases the speed and turning the screw clockwise slows the speed. The ideal goal is 12 seconds of retraction. The screw is very sensitive and after several tries I was jumping between 5-6 seconds and 12-24 seconds with just a turn of about 5-10 degrees. After several tries, holding the slotted screw placed through a box wrench holding the locking nut, I was able to adjust the screw and finally tighten the assembly without a problem. I final retraction speed is 12 seconds. The flap handle operation is exactly 4 pumps to lock out which is what is expected to occur. It seems that Robert Brown's procedure works. I'm still not sure why pushing fluid from the front fails to prime the pump. There are two one-way ball valves which are oriented to allow fluid to pass from front to back, but it has not worked to prime the pump successfully. Their are reports that you can push hydraulic fluid from the rear actuator forward to the reservoir, but in order to do that one needs to back off on the large adjustment screw creating a larger leak for the fluid to flow through the pump and into the anterior part of the system. I believe that that would likely work and would bypass the problem of attempting to flow fluid against the two checkouts, but I just didn't need to because opening the system in the middle and backfilling from the pump forward worked. I think what I was doing as well is allowing the fluid placed in the anterior part of the system to prime the pump once reconnected. When adjusting the speed and trying to get all the air out of the system, I operated the flap handle placing the flaps down, which draws fluid into the hydraulic pump from the front part of the system and pressurizes the rear part of the system causing the actuator to move. With each adjustment, I left the flaps fully in the down position and just cracked open the at the actuator so that it dripped hydraulic fluid. There was no suggestion of error in the system. Then I tightened AN at the tee of the actuator. With the flaps still down, I had hydraulic fluid to the reservoir with a pressure pot until I collected more than a pint of clear air free fluid. I then disconnected fresh product closed system. I repeated this procedure several times. The system now seems to be reliable and operates consistently with 12 seconds of attraction and for palms to lockout. The Mooney manual information is not helpful nor is it clearly written. Since I have now found a procedure that works, I think this will be my go to procedure in the future. Using hoses for connectivity and fittings at directly from pressure pot and to collection jars, at the end of the hose ideally submersed in an intro so of hydraulic fluid, allows one to avoid the complete mess that is easily made with hydraulic fluid leaking everywhere and floor. Hope this is helpful. John Breda

While you are considering the 50 year old factory gear warning system, consider installing the P2 gear warning system (and likely the Laser Landing Height System seen on this forum by MicroKit). They are both worth the time and expense and they will add valuable info. John Breda

Just getting back with the picture I was to pst of the Johnson Bar Boot. The tolerances are very tight. There is about 0.050" clearance between the aft edge of the opening in the floor/and the cover I have shown and the Johnson Bar. The tolerances are so tight that I had to relieve the metal cover for the 4 rivet heads. When making the Johnson Bar boot, the thickness of the material is a concern. I used 0.040" thick soft leather. The opening in the leather should be as close to the bottom of the Johnson as possible so when the bar is operated, the forward/aft motion of this part of the bar will be at a minimum. I made the aluminum cover to clean up the installation and minimize the width of leather in view. The console is a fiberglass hand lay-up to replace the original. The Trim and Flap indicator is for a J model (all signed off by a DER). As assembled, there are no obstructions and the Johnson Bar works easily. John Breda

Do you have a pop-off valve. That would give some insurance against over-boosting. John Breda

You have done good work. I might adjust the back of your form to make the part angled, and also not hang down so much. I made several interior parts when I did my F. I retrofitted an Ovation interior which is made from fiberglass. You can easily do hand lay-ups of fiberglass and you will not need to be as fussy with the mold. Fiberglass can be sanded as needed, re-glassed if required, and worked to the finished size. You should use a flame retardant resin when you make your final parts. Sign-off for me was no problem as I had a DER to do those sorts of things. This should be a minor modification however. John Breda

When I did my rebuild I installed the interior so that the Wemac aluminum flange is sealed against and screwed the structure of the dict leading to the outside world. That way water can not come in and soak the carpet and interior panels that are in between the duct and the Wemac flange. The panels then have a cut-out and the interior panels are just held against the sealed Wemac. At one point I made a decorative ring out of aluminum but never installed them. John Breda

I looked to the photography stuff as opposed to the MyGoFlight flexible arms. The photopgraphy stuff is much better. Manfrotto clamp: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010TRMKR4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Manfrotto flexible arm: https://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-244MICRO-Micro-Friction-Black/dp/B00WFPN640/ref=sr_1_19?crid=1ZC09319VWLST&keywords=manfrotto+flexible+arm&qid=1640525522&sprefix=manfrotto+flexible+arm%2Caps%2C72&sr=8-19 MyGoFlight Sport Adapter - Generation 3 MGF-MNT-1028: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265388534799?hash=item3dca63ac0f:g:KZoAAOSwAOdbSkBG The clamp mounts on the yoke shaft tight against the back side of the yoke. There is enough mobility to place the Ipad mini where ever you want it. The flexible are tightens down well, and has ratchet-like handles. A bit more expensive than the Chinese versions MyGoFlight sells at much inflated prices, but it is better designed and works well. I did find some Cj=hinese makers that make better arms but the Manfrotto stuff is better. John Breda

I installed mine last June at annual. It is installed on a left sided inspection plate just outboard of the left main gear. Left side was chosen to keep it away from the exhaust. The install went well. I had not flown recently and was out of Biannual currency and Instrument currency. We went out and did some landings and my instructor (one of the Mooney Proficiency Instructors) commented that all of my landings (except for the first one which was flatter) were all consistently the best landings had had seen me do. It is all about knowing how high you are at 5 feet down to wheels touching. Knowing you are 2-3 feet above the runway makes it so much easier to bring the airplane's nose up and get the stall warning working. Without the landing height info, I wanted to take a flatter attitude since I did not want to drop it in. The combination of Airspeed, AOA, and Landing Height Info makes it much more reliable. I have not yet used it at night, but I am sure it will be a big help there as well. Great Product! John Breda

You can buy SoundEx material from Aircraft Spruce. I do not like the stuff that sticks to the skins as you can never inspect if necessary. I just placed it between the tubes and used 3M Aluminum tape to hold it in place. The website is: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/soundex7.php?clickkey=23792 The 3M tape is: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/3malumifoiltape.php Both are not cheap, but both are excellent products. Do not buy less expensive aluminum tape. It will not stick. I used the Soundex behind the side panels and in the ceiling. John Breda

I've been in IMC and totally lost VHF comm due to static build up on everything from C-172 to big jets. I have also lost sat comm as well. Static wicks are the most poorly maintained item on any airframe. A proper inspection reviews their conductive ability. They are. rarely installed correctly, they require a conductive paste which should be renewed every few years. If you don't believe in their value, you've never been hit by lightning. And yes, they are on many MEL's. Can you describe the necessary maintenance more specifically? John Breda

I may have one or two. I'll check. John Breda

I have a 1968 F model that is highly modified (see my pics). It has a full Ovation interior, with the Ovation rear seats as well that recline, and also with removable backs. It did require approval and i used a DER to write said approval. It can be done. Probably the hardest part is to find the seats but there are damaged Ovations in salvage yards. You might try Dodson Salvage. They had an Ovation. I believe the front seats have been sold. I bought the seat belts about 1 1/2 years ago. I have another set of Ovation rear seat belts which I may never use. I changed them out for the newer Amsafe seat belts. I has have approved data for the alteration. John Breda

I keep referencing the words, consider the "risk/reward ratio." I have 2 Meyers jacks bought on e-bay (about $700 for the pair). They are the best jacks I could have found in the industry. Engine hoist at Harbor Freight $175. A fabricated concrete tail stand on rollers made for the aircraft (made when I did my rebuild) - $100 in supplies. Everything has mechanical locking collars and locking pins. I have left the aircraft this stable 4-point set-up for extended times without a concern. Do not be penny wise and pound foolish. You will use this stuff for a long time. John Breda

I must support the comment quoted above, respond appropriately, and support the many that have given you good advice. I attended a Mooney proficiency seminar several years ago. The one comment I remembered from the course , more than any other, was posed to the group by one of the very experienced Mooney CFI transition trainers. That question was, "How many of you have a sense of trepidation before any flight in the Mooney?" 2/3 of the attendees raised their hands. I believe the heart of that question addresses the largest scope of safety issues, namely, you do not know what you do not know, until one must also question what may be missed in risk/reward decisions. Flying a military plane or even a 172 is no preparation for flying a Mooney. It is a different airplane with its own characteristics. The problems range from a too fast landing, a bounce, or two, or three leading to a prop-strike, which will leave you recognizing that you should have taken an experienced Mooney pilot with you. Or, something worse may occur leaving your family wishing you had taken an experienced Mooney pilot with you. It is all about the risk/reward decisions one makes. Except for the cost, which you will need and want to make investing in transition training once you realize that the Mooney is not a 172, there is NO DOWNSIDE to taking someone with you. I am not down playing your experience and knowledge, however you do not know what you do not know. There are many CFI's, Mooney ferry pilots and Mooney experienced people who would go with you. Be safe, recognize that your are taking on a task in a new and unknown airplane, with major work that has been performed on it, in a less ideal season (winter in Canada) over inhospitable terrain should something go wrong. Good planning is free. The advice you have received is free. Both are worth much more than you have paid for them. Make smart choice. Too many adverse situations that we see happen are avoidable. John Breda

Jerry, I may have these handles. John Breda