Mooney down at Tahoe today. One fatality

[mooneygirl]

Very sad to see one in our Mooney family is lost.  I wonder if density altitude played a factor. It has been quite hot up in TVL.

 

 

http://www.news10.net/news/article/251493/2/Man-killed-woman-injured-in-Tahoe-plane-crash-?odyssey=tab

 

 

My thoughts and prayers are with the families. A sad day

 

[Bob_Belville]

Someone survived that wreck! That's amazing.

[Corvus]

Very sad, based out of my home airport. Thoughts and prayers.

[Marauder]

Looks like a C model, N6709U. Very sad.

[mooneygirl]

More information on Kathryn's report.  This is what we were told as well by line staff up there.  http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2013/07/mooney-m20-crash-at-south-lake-tahoe.html

 

[Piloto]

Take off and climb are the most stressful scenario on an engine. This was most likely due to engine failure. Glad the wife survived. Proof that the Mooney roll cage protects you even when upside down.

 

José 

[DaV8or]

Sounds like density altitude issues to me. I could be wrong though. It's no joke. Maybe it was clear to him that he wasn't going to clear the trees and then started a banking right turn to get away and forgot that banking increases the tall speed. Maybe an AOA indicator might have helped (if he didn't actually have one). On the other hand, maybe I'm full of doo doo and there was a mechanical malfunction.

[Marauder]

Looking at the pictures, the one showing the prop does not show any distortion or impact damage. Really looks like the motor was not running. I would have expect some damage.

[Marauder]

Always amazes me to read "news reports". Claimed the plane was still running (I'm guessing it was the gyros and not the engine) when the first person got there and that the plane "had a weight capacity up to 12,499 pounds"! Is the max weight on a 1963 2,499? I could see it being a typo.

[jetdriven]

Take off and climb are the most stressful scenario on an engine. This was most likely due to engine failure. Glad the wife survived. Proof that the Mooney roll cage protects you even when upside down.

 

José 

Statistically speaking, only a half dozen certified engines fail a year due to outright mechanical failure. . The rest of the engine failures are due to fuel contamination with air. However, 400 or so pilots lose control of their airplanes.

[wiguy]

 Sad event for sure. I'd put density altitude with an early turn after departure at the top of probabilities. You can almost rule out an engine failure just by looking at statistics. Time will tell though.

[Hank]

Always amazes me to read "news reports". Claimed the plane was still running (I'm guessing it was the gyros and not the engine) when the first person got there and that the plane "had a weight capacity up to 12,499 pounds"! Is the max weight on a 1963 2,499? I could see it being a typo.

 

I think the older ones were 2450; my 1970-C is 2575. It's probably "reporter confusion" because the FAA definition of small aircraft is up to 12,499 leaving large aircraft to be 12,500 or more.

 

I also thought it was strange that the engine was reported to be still running by the early first responder. Without having a nurse nearby when the plane came down, there could easily have been two fatalities.

[Piloto]

Statistically speaking, only a half dozen certified engines fail a year due to outright mechanical failure. . The rest of the engine failures are due to fuel contamination with air. However, 400 or so pilots lose control of their airplanes.

 

I am glad to hear that is only 6 engines/year failure rate. Well we are in July so maybe 3 more engines to go. And one pilot/day will loose control of his plane and crash?. No wonder I see fewer planes flying.  BTW how do you keep fuel getting contaminated with air?

 

José

[Skybrd]

Looking at the pictures, the one showing the prop does not show any distortion or impact damage. Really looks like the motor was not running. I would have expect some damage.

I also noticed the prop and wondered why it wasn't bent and twisted. Maybe when it sliced through the tree branches the engine stopped with the prop showing little damage. I could be wrong but last week I think I saw the same airplane on the ramp at Columbia airport. I noticed the nice paint job and windows of pre 65 Mooney. It sure had a good paint job and clean looking  plane. My deep respects to the family for their loss. -- Does anyone know what the density altitude was when this happened? 

[mooneygirl]

According to staff at Mountain West FBO at TVL. DA=10,000

Another source said the family had a cabin in the area and was not unfamiliar.

I remember a scenario out of Big Bear many years back. DA=10,000  we watched a Mooney struggle, touch back on the runway, take off again headed for the trees. I thought we were watching an accident. He pulled up at the last minute to avoid trees and disappeared from sight. Luckily the dry lake bed beyond provided a flat area for shallow climbing turns.

 

With my accident, the engine was at idle and the prop looked pretty perfect after landing.

 

Still in shock and thoughts are with his wife.  Sad day

[rbridges]

According to staff at Mountain West FBO at TVL. DA=10,000

Another source said the family had a cabin in the area and was not unfamiliar.

I remember a scenario out of Big Bear many years back. DA=10,000  we watched a Mooney struggle, touch back on the runway, take off again headed for the trees. I thought we were watching an accident. He pulled up at the last minute to avoid trees and disappeared from sight. Luckily the dry lake bed beyond provided a flat area for shallow climbing turns.

 

With my accident, the engine was at idle and the prop looked pretty perfect after landing.

 

Still in shock and thoughts are with his wife.  Sad day

 

I have never taken off in such a high DA.  Probably worst I've seen is 3000 or so.  I would imagine most planes would be very anemic at 10000.

[thinwing]

very sad...kTVL is very dangerous when high summer temps...also takeoff direction is critical ...hot airport ..always takeoff to the north towards the lake and turn toward golf course....if winds favor south takeoff toward rising terrain and airport hot,scrub the flight.Also if aircraft not at postive rate of climb out of ground effect 2/3 rds down runway,abort takeoff..lastly,non turbo a/c need to lean mixture on groundrun..

[OR75]

TVL is a tricky airport

Nice long and wide runway 18-36 at 6200ft elevation

 

Winds are weird and can change quickly (like in many other airports)

 

Landing on 18 is the most common and usually not an issue even when winds are slightly favoring 36 (very long runway)

 

When winds are favoring 18, it may still be a better option to take off 36, and gain altitude over the lake

Terrain rises quick when taking off 18

[Z W]

My C model would barely climb at 10,000 with full fuel and 2 adults on board.  I took it to 12,000 a few times, but climb rates would be about 200 FPM at Vy above 10k.  Any faster or slower and virtually no climb at all.  The carb'd 180-HP O-360 is not a high altitude performer.

 

It would be very easy, taking off at 10k DA, to pull back a little too hard and lose your climb.  A little harder, staring at trees getting big in the windshield, and a stall could occur.

 

No idea if that happened to this pilot, but be careful out there.  Fly early and fly light if you're flying high.

[fantom]

Sadly somewhat reminiscent of what did Patrick in.

Barring other stupid pilot tricks, it's usually take offs and landings that do us in. Other than an AOA, those tens of thousands of dollars for wiz bang glass and ADS-B won't help in most instances.

Fly safe and smart out there.

[piperpainter]

<p>I'd say he was perfectly within the airplanes limitations. I actually was there the day before and left at 7PM. I had a DA of 9300ft and I had a load, but not gross. I used a solid 2500ft of runway 36&nbsp;(i didn't try and pull it off) I lifted off accelerated and climbed at about 400-500fpm. So I took a little stroll along the beach towards the casinos and then I turned back around as I climbed up to 10.5K. I then flew the rest of the way home at that altitude with no problems. Now, had I taken off to the south you are automatically going into terrain. The only way you can avoid the terrain is to fly to the west and then join the highway that eventually heads north. If he had an issue with his engine, which he may have, then it appears from the video he tried to do the &quot;impossible turn.&quot; And just didn't have any energy or enough altitude. Stall/spin into trees. He should have tried for the golf course instead as others have done before. Sad day.</p>

[M016576]

<p>I'd say he was perfectly within the airplanes limitations. I actually was there the day before and left at 7PM. I had a DA of 9300ft and I had a load, but not gross. I used a solid 2500ft of runway 36&nbsp;(i didn't try and pull it off) I lifted off accelerated and climbed at about 400-500fpm. So I took a little stroll along the beach towards the casinos and then I turned back around as I climbed up to 10.5K. I then flew the rest of the way home at that altitude with no problems. Now, had I taken off to the south you are automatically going into terrain. The only way you can avoid the terrain is to fly to the west and then join the highway that eventually heads north. If he had an issue with his engine, which he may have, then it appears from the video he tried to do the &quot;impossible turn.&quot; And just didn't have any energy or enough altitude. Stall/spin into trees. He should have tried for the golf course instead as others have done before. Sad day.</p>

Sage advice from a *very* experienced mountain pilot!

[jetdriven]

Come to think of it, looking at the photos, that prop is not very badly damaged. Perhaps it was engine failure.

[mooneygirl]

We will know more as soon as the investigation is done.  What we "know" is take off 36 about the 200 feet in the air at the windsock.  Sharp right turn, into the trees.  One witness said motor was running when they got to the plane, prop was not "attached" to the plane.  I hope we can learn some more details from the wife/widow.  I am only speculating that either it was a medical issue or a control surface issue.  It doesn't appear to be an engine issue [sounded normal to witnesses]. 

 

I don't know if the pictures will help.  First is of 18 approach. Second is the Ovation on the landing roll 36.  To me it looks like the windsock is about half way down the runway on the right [36]

 

Again, my thoughts are with the family.  The photo looks hauntingly familiar to my crash

[DaV8or]

Broken crankshaft at the prop maybe???