Heloman Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 I'm 34 years old and I've had 55 hours pilot training over the last few years ( plus 12 hours in the last month doing serious "shake the rust off" ground training-with a specific focus on flight planning and decision making) ups and downs with old jobs have kept me from completion. However things have changed for the better, I started an aviation related business and I've done quite well. But now I'm out of the country until December, I have no kids, a cheap house, paid off everything, very few deductions, and I can buy an airplane cash without it being a burden. In a perfect world I would casually go about finishing my PP and move on with having fun getting a IR all while renting until I get 100- 200 hours, but my business has good income so I can use it to buy an airplane with with pretax dollars. The rub is, how do I buy a plane when I'm not going to be home for the rest of the year, who can do that for me? How crazy am I? I hate to lose the fun and experience of buying my first plane, but for a 1/3 off the price I can get over it, especially if I feel that I'm using some sort of "bonafide by Mooney-space- expert buyer" that SHOULD be able to do a better job than I would. However, I was an A&P in a previous life (still am I guess, according to the card in my desk drawer two thousand miles away )and if something stupid is missed I'll blame myself for not being there to catch it , but I guess that's just something I have to live with. I've talked to my accountant about this, he agrees that I should have no issue using an aircraft as a tax deduction, I even discussed with him the article that was in Plane and pilot about tax law changes that came out about a year ago, the thing is I can show a reasonable business purpose for the aircraft beyond simple transportation, and even If the Gov-thugs make me pay it back it wouldn't be the end of the world. I'm sure allot of you guys are business owners yourselves and may have been through similar scenarios, any thoughts or advice that come to mind? Feel free to give it to me strait! Quote
DonMuncy Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 Call Jimmy Garrison or David McGee at All American Aircraft. They will steer you well. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 Why rush something that is so costly? Planes will still be for sale when you get back, right? Buying is easy selling is not in your control... On the other hand pre purchase agreement, all American aircraft, a Texas MSC, these are three seperate things that worked for me and you are good to go... Please understand that I am not an expert on plane sales. This is just my opinion. You probably find that you are different from other people... Good luck, -a- Quote
NotarPilot Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 Wire the money to my bank account and I'll buy the plane for you. :-) Quote
Heloman Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Posted June 16, 2013 Why rush something that is so costly? Planes will still be for sale when you get back, right? Buying is easy selling is not in your control... On the other hand pre purchase agreement, all American aircraft, a Texas MSC, these are three seperate things that worked for me and you are good to go... Please understand that I am not an expert on plane sales. This is just my opinion. You probably find that you are different from other people... Good luck, -a- I'll only have two weeks at the end of the year, including Christmas to make it happen, if I wait, 1/3 of the aircraft purchase price will be given to the gov in taxes and will be gone forever. I know I'm not the only one on this board with a tax bill, but they'll be getting plenty out of me, anything I can do that can align my business interests,and my own interests, while paying less taxes is something I think I should pursue. So the rush is, I can buy a 70-80k airplane for 49-56k, if I do it this year! Next year I'll worry about next year. Quote
Heloman Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Posted June 16, 2013 NOPE! Seriously, if you see a problem, tell me, I can take it. Quote
clh Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 I'll only have two weeks at the end of the year, including Christmas to make it happen, if I wait, 1/3 of the aircraft purchase price will be given to the gov in taxes and will be gone forever. . Sounds like fundamental building blocks for something you could really live to regret! First I am neither a mooney or tax expert. I do have a little experience with remote ownership. i would pretty much never recommend a expenditure for something that has a large risk of ongoing expense purely for tax purposes. Even 20-25k can quickly disappear if you buy the wrong plane (a pre-buy does not guarantee condition) Finding the right plane for you takes either time or a very flexible standard of what you want. I strongly recommend that you get a list of exactly what you have to have, and what you would like to have, and what you cannot tolerate in a plane. Then start looking. Take your time. You can buy a plane quickly. Selling a mistake takes years! Also, You really should have a workable plan for how to care and feed the plane while you are away. Otherwise you will spend all your time back getting it in flying order. 1 Quote
alex Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 --The rub is, how do I buy a plane when I'm not going to be home for the rest of the year, who can do that for me? ....um, you don't. --How crazy am I? I wouldn't use the word crazy, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'll say very. Is it just me? ...+1 2 Quote
aviatoreb Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 There are buyer agents for aircraft just like there are seller agents. Often they may be the same person - meaning they may work as a buyer agent for one person but on another occasion work as a seller agent for another person. If you can find a reputable agent, then they could fill just the role you need. You sign a contract with them that says the features and condition you wish in an aircraft, and their job is to go out and find a cream-puff in that condition and represent it to you for possible bid. Then they do the bidding, negotiating, prebuy advice and location, relocating the airplane all while communicating with you. It can be a really good setup for a less experienced aircraft buyer in general and especially someone in your situation - IF you get a person you trust. In turn they take a percentage like 3% I think. It is similar to hiring a realestate agent to help you find a house. I am not sure why it is less common in aircraft but anyway it does exist. Quote
Z W Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 You have six months until the end of the year. At the dollar numbers you are talking about spending, you can afford to buy a plane ticket back to the U.S. to personally inspect your purchase. Most purchases involve a plane ticket to look at it anyways; yours will just be from farther away. Choose the basic features your plane will or will not have: Short / mid / long body, turbo, IFR GPS, 2-axis autopilot, quality of paint and interior, etc. At a budget of 70-80k you will be looking at a very nice F, a cheaper J, or a nice K model 231. Find the best deal on the market for the model of your choice. Call and negotiate a price. Have the seller email you the logs in PDF form. Sign a contract contingent upon inspection. Have the plane flown to your A&P for inspection. Buy a ticket to come look at the plane, after the inspection has passed. If you like it, buy it, and fly it to your new hangar, or have somebody else do it for you. One caution - you seem to be justifying this financially because of the tax implications. That is not wise. Your accountant must not be familiar with the costs of airplane ownership. You will spend a large chunk of your tax "savings" just on the pre-buy, first annual, and the cost of the plane ticket involved with the purchase. This plane will cost you a lot of money, more than it saves you. There are much better ways to reduce your taxable income (IRAs, employee health insurance, moving from W-2 income to 1099 income if you own the business, purchase your facility and lease it back to your business, etc). A consult with a business / tax attorney or CPA can fill you in on the rest. I don't mean to discourage you from buying a plane, but just want to make sure you understand the financial consequences. You buy planes because flying is the most amazing thing you can do on any given day, and for the lifestyle change they bring. Any other rationale is just a fiction that helps you sleep at night. Quote
carusoam Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 Using expert advice, buying a premium plane would make sense. Buying a discount project with work to be done, not so much. Following your numbers, if you act quickly, you can save $14k. This would be good. If you rush and your plane has an unseen rusty cam from sitting, a $25k overhaul becomes your next challenge. If you know what your doing, you can make an interesting deal. If you really need the help from the Internet, think twice... If you have excess cash... Take on financial risk. If you don't... There are some nice planes on this site with known owners... Best regards, -a- Quote
gregwatts Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 Something smells here............... My opinion only! Quote
Cruiser Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 I was waiting for the "I'll send you more money than you need to buy the plane and just send a little back to me" IF this is one of those deals it is more sophisticated than most. Although I think he is talking about the accelerated depreciation rule for business use of airplanes, Quote
fantom Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 If he is serious, All American is his best bet. Our all knowing newbie might also be of assistance. If not, he's probably Nigerian, and we should move this to the new troll section. Quote
FlyDave Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 If he is serious, All American is his best bet. Our all knowing newbie might also be of assistance. If not, he's probably Nigerian, and we should move this to the new troll section. Hmmm...Another one to put on ignore? Quote
AmigOne Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 "if I wait, 1/3 of the aircraft purchase price will be given to the gov in taxes"<br /><br />talk to Romney, he only pays 14%.... Quote
N601RX Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 I think he may be ligit. He has been a member for almost a year and has other post. What he is asking about is not completely unreasonable as long as he is dealing with a reputable seller or broker on this end and gets a plane of known quality with a very complete pre buy. One other consideration, are you moving back to the US at the end of the year? Otherwise the plane will be here and you will be overseas and the plane will just be sitting developing problems. I have a friend who is overseas right now and gets us take his plane up for a couple of filghts every 6 months when he is home. If this is the case it makes no sense. If your moving back at the end of the year anyway and are just moving up the purchase a few months to save on taxes it makes sense. Quote
rainman Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 If I understand this correctly, you can save the same 30% next year and buy the plane with time to inspect and fly it. What am I missing?? Quote
Heloman Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Posted June 16, 2013 Thank you to all those that seriously responded, some good info! I agree that with an agent I could be involved at least through e-mail and phone, and there's no reason why I couldn't make a quick trip to finalize the purchase in person; I sure would want to do the inspection along with whoever does the pre-buy or at least do my own look over when it's opened up. Also, I don't live out of the country, I'll be back. If the plane has to sit it wont be for long. Although my situation may not be ideal, I've been wanting my own airplane forever, and particularly a Mooney since the first time I saw one. Quote
Heloman Posted June 17, 2013 Author Report Posted June 17, 2013 If he is serious, All American is his best bet. Our all knowing newbie might also be of assistance. If not, he's probably Nigerian, and we should move this to the new troll section. Have you guys really had trolls with posts like mine? I'm a real person and I hope to meet some of you one day, probably at EAA since I (normally) live about two hours away from Oshkosh; I normally go. I went looking for the Mooney area last year but It was the second Saturday and it seemed everyone had already left; too bad, if I would have gone the first Saturday maybe some of you could have verified my non-Nigerian ethnicity. Quote
carusoam Posted June 17, 2013 Report Posted June 17, 2013 You may find the thread named introductions! Introduce yourself or something like that to help remove the Nigerian stigma... Best regards, -a- Quote
Skywarrior Posted June 17, 2013 Report Posted June 17, 2013 Just curious... what sort of aviation-related business did you start? Quote
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