Seth Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 I recieved a few error messages out of my Garmin 430W during my "Mad Missile Dash" across the USA. "VLOC is not responding" "G/S is not responding" At times I would get both of these error messages but everything would continue to work. I never recieved these messages when I preformed any Instrument Approaches. I also have a second glideslop coupled to my second radio, a KX-165, so I can easily hand fly an ILS, LOC, or VOR approach if needed (and I did hand fly one ILS just because I wanted to during one approach during my trip). Every time I would restart after the last flight, the self test would be okay. Each error showed itself less than five times times during the trip and only twice at the same time. Usually after at least an hour an a half if not two hours into the flight. Looking online, this is what I found for the G/S issue: -Internal system-to-system communication between the main processor and glideslope reciever has failed. Operational status of the glideslope reciever is unknown. -Contact Garmin technical support This is what I found for the VLOCK issue -Internal system-to-system communication between the main processor and the VLOC reciever has failed. Operational status of the VLOC reciever is unkocwn. -Contact Garming technical support Does this mean my 430w is dying? Is this a simple fix? Worth getting checked out if very intermittant? Could it be a software upgrade? Another avionics issues all together? Has anyone experienced anything similar? Has anyone ever contacted Garmin technical support? Are they actually helpful? I plan to call and discuss this with my MSC, but as always, wanted first to check this out on MooneySpace. Thanks, -Seth Quote
FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 Seth- FYI. I had similar issues at similar time frames and with similar rates of occurance. The messages related to signal integrity but not VLOC specifically. I Replaced the GPS antenna and everything was back to normal. Quote
Seth Posted June 5, 2013 Author Report Posted June 5, 2013 Seth- FYI. I had similar issues at similar time frames and with similar rates of occurance. The messages related to signal integrity but not VLOC specifically. I Replaced the GPS antenna and everything was back to normal. Thank you! I spoke with Garmin and they said the fault is an interanl issue on the boards within the box themselves. He said it's a flat rate $900 repair and they may have to repair/replace some of the internal components to solve the issue. However, I'm curious as to what to do after I talk to my shop. Maybe this is a common issue like yours and it's not internal. The tech I spoke too, vs the original service rep who knew nothing that transferred me to the field tech, said it's not terribly common, but the fault code is an internal issue, not something hooking up to the box. He said that error is an inside the until failure, not a hookup to an antenna. I'm still curious however if it may just be a lose wire outside, or something like an antenna like your issue. -Seth Quote
thinwing Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 Well the unit is out of warrenty so you could ask the shop to disassemble and clean all the different jn connectors...they can get dirty or corroded in humid environment..sometimes all it takes is to unplug and replug connectors between various boards in the unit...Than re install and see if problem persists....If it does ,that is when I would return to Garmin for that 900 amu flat rate repair...kj Quote
Seth Posted June 5, 2013 Author Report Posted June 5, 2013 That's a great idea too. And yes, it is out of warrenty. It was purchased in 1999 and upgraded to WAAS in 2007. It's a very intermittant problem, only shown the issue a half dozen times, but it's the same error those time. I'll do some more reseach but these are great suggestions. -Seth Quote
Marauder Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 Hi Seth! Or should I call you "the traveler"? If you have any other nagging issues with the unit (like buttons sticking, knobs falling off, etc), using Garmin's flat rate service will get those fixed as well (I believe that is how Garmin works -- but checked the fine print). These STREP charge strategies can be good for us as the consumer or they can be a lot of money for nothing. Usually when flat rates are offered, they have taken into consideration the annual failure rate of the product and the average cost to repair it (internal cost). They then layer a profit on top of it and it gets wrapped up in a pretty bow and called a "flat charge". The problem for the consumer is exactly what you are dealing with. Is it a major item like a bad NAV board (i.e. big $ item) that will need to be replaced or is it a loose connector? These flat rates work on averages. So... if you have a product that has a bunch of nagging issues or hasn't been updated in a while, the flat rate is a nice way to have the unit refurbished to current standards. But if you have a busted knob, you are paying through the teeth. What you need to be careful is whether or not they have built in a limiting clause to the service. Sometimes to protect themselves, they will say "only repair components related to the original problem". In that approach, if you have other issues, they may say the flat rate doesn't apply and you will become a time & material customer to them. Or they may have a higher flat rate for "multiple" problems. Best check Garmin's T&Cs'. Quote
Alan Fox Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 Garmin Flat rate covers EVERYTHING , It comes back to you with whatever you need plus a nice 8130 and all the updates .....Its a great deal... 1 Quote
N601RX Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 Its a horibble deal if you only need something minor. The internal battery died in my 396 and they told me it would be $350 to replace. I got a new one from Digikey for a little over $2 and it did not take more than 20 minutes to take it apart and solder it in. Quote
Alan Fox Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 Its a horibble deal if you only need something minor. The internal battery died in my 396 and they told me it would be $350 to replace. I got a new one from Digikey for a little over $2 and it did not take more than 20 minutes to take it apart and solder it in. Soldering in an internal in a handheld is easy , and it is also legal......Diagnosing and replacing semiconductors on a board is not practical or legal....Oh and I forgot to mention , you get the battery also..... Quote
Marauder Posted June 6, 2013 Report Posted June 6, 2013 Its a horibble deal if you only need something minor. The internal battery died in my 396 and they told me it would be $350 to replace. I got a new one from Digikey for a little over $2 and it did not take more than 20 minutes to take it apart and solder it in. Your situation is exactly what I warned Seth about. If it is a minor issue, you will pay dearly for it. That is the whole theory behind STREP (STandardREPair) charges. Offset costly repairs you incur as a manufacturer by doing cheap repairs and charging a lot for it. Quote
Alan Fox Posted June 6, 2013 Report Posted June 6, 2013 Your situation is exactly what I warned Seth about. If it is a minor issue, you will pay dearly for it. That is the whole theory behind STREP (STandardREPair) charges. Offset costly repairs you incur as a manufacturer by doing cheap repairs and charging a lot for it. Most avionics manufacturers charge an automatic bench fee of 500 to 1000 dollars just to diag the box , that does not include the parts of the labor....... Quote
Marauder Posted June 6, 2013 Report Posted June 6, 2013 Most avionics manufacturers charge an automatic bench fee of 500 to 1000 dollars just to diag the box , that does not include the parts of the labor....... Exactly why as consumers you need to know the support strategy of the product you buy. I remember one company, heck, I have this one company's products in my panel (Narco) that decided to lock out field repairs of units and require return to their facility for repair. That didn't work out for them too well did it? The avionics shop that installed mine decided to stop selling them because they were losing out on service revenues. The change in support strategy by Narco came after I bought it. Had I known, I would most likely not bought them. In my line of work service strategies are called "cost of ownership". There is a fine line sometimes between an acceptable service price point and the cost of the product. Ever have an Apple Mac repaired? Your value proposition needs to balance cost of ownership versus initial investment versus what your competitors are doing. If you can make a product with features that blows away the competition and has a low cost of ownership -- you win in the market. Quote
0TreeLemur Posted April 6, 2020 Report Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) Note: in keeping with the spirit of not creating infinitely many threads, I'm resurrecting a similar thread from 7 years ago. Yesterday, Sunday, April 5, 2020, at about 21:03Z, while flying northbound at 31.5169N -88.3447W the GNS430W threw an integrity error. Big yellow letters appear on the screen saying "USE OTHER NAVIGATION". This was actually the second time it happened yesterday. The first was perhaps 30 minutes prior and it lasted about 1 minute, but I didn't note the time. It resolved itself. The second time it happened, I noted the time and cycled power on the GPS. When it rebooted, it didn't have the error. The error did not reappear the rest of the days' flying. About 1 year ago, the GNS430W was overhauled when after flying through rain the GNS430W issued a "Communication Radio Failure" warning I sent it back to Garmin for the IRAN treatment, which I think cost a flat $1200. Yesterday there was no precip anywhere along our route of flight. Looking at the GPS status for 05Apr2020 from https://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/24Hr_WaasLPV.htm (image below) there does not seem to have been a reported outage, which I guess means that it is my 430W that is having a problem. Anyone else seen/dealt with this behavior from their 430W? Man, I really don't want to give Garmin another $1200. Edited April 6, 2020 by 0TreeLemur reasoning Quote
philiplane Posted April 6, 2020 Report Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) On 6/5/2013 at 2:20 PM, thinwing said: Well the unit is out of warrenty so you could ask the shop to disassemble and clean all the different jn connectors...they can get dirty or corroded in humid environment..sometimes all it takes is to unplug and replug connectors between various boards in the unit...Than re install and see if problem persists....If it does ,that is when I would return to Garmin for that 900 amu flat rate repair...kj That would be a waste of time since all the connectors inside anything Garmin makes have gold plated contacts. They don't deteriorate. It used to work on older King or Narco units because they did not use gold plating. Garmin's flat rate repair covers anything and everything, but you need to tell them on the way in about everything giving you trouble. Bench testing may miss some things like keys or frequency selectors that intermittently work. I've sent dozens of units in for flat rate repairs over the years and I think the service is a great bargain. Edited April 6, 2020 by philiplane 1 Quote
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