gregwatts Posted June 2, 2013 Report Posted June 2, 2013 ignore the armchair critics- seriously. Randy I do believe he asked the armchair critics for their opinions.............and the armchair critics are responding! Just sayin' 2 Quote
rob Posted June 2, 2013 Report Posted June 2, 2013 VREF is RETAIL not used private party price which is much lower. I betcha if he priced it to sell at 60k he would sell it quickly rather than wait a couple years to sell it. Retail on a 35 year old airframe? What does that mean? Direct from Mooney? Quote
38Blackfin Posted June 2, 2013 Report Posted June 2, 2013 I do believe he asked the armchair critics for their opinions.............and the armchair critics are responding! Just sayin' Yes - point made. I'm in in big-ticket sales and it is hard, hard to find that price-point between getting enough and not. Especially in a market as fluid as this one- Randy Quote
Alan Fox Posted June 2, 2013 Report Posted June 2, 2013 1) evaluate the Market , 2) search the comps 3) make your price your absolute price of Exit.... If you won't sell for less than 70K than list it for 70K....It will not sell for 70K unless something changes in GA , If you could live selling it for 59K there is a decent chance it will sell relatively quick.......The big problem here is that you are asking a bunch of people the value of something that they have an emotional attachment to...... And don't use my numbers as they are just examples...... Your goal is to get a 180...... The market is very weak right now... It is foolish to spend money on equipping it , if you are going to sell it...you are better off selling it for 10K less , than spending 20K to sell it for 5 to 10 K more....And PS there is no way you are going to get a 430 in the panel for less than 12 to13 K assuming you can even get the 430 for 8K ... Its a 3 to 4 K install.... Quote
Alan Fox Posted June 2, 2013 Report Posted June 2, 2013 Drop the price by 20k and we should talk. I am going need to invest 20k in new avionics and autopilot to fly it. Get real , It has a IFR certified GPS , and one of the best autopilots out there ....And I hate to break it to you but KX170Bs although not pretty are probably the most dependable radios ever made......If you cant fly it the way it is , perhaps you should take up needlepoint or stamp collecting... 2 Quote
rob Posted June 2, 2013 Report Posted June 2, 2013 An interesting point: if it would sell today for 60k, but would sell in two years for 70, that's a 16% rate of return. Ignoring the cost of ownership, that's a heck of an investment. Quote
Alan Fox Posted June 2, 2013 Report Posted June 2, 2013 An interesting point: if it would sell today for 60k, but would sell in two years for 70, that's a 16% rate of return. Ignoring the cost of ownership, that's a heck of an investment. It will sell for less in two years....Planes no longer appreciate....They Depreciate.....and even if you could get 70 K in two years , the ownership costs would get about 110% of that , 4K for two years of insurance , 4K for 2 annuals , 2K for tie down , Depreciation , cost if anything breaks , (and it will) cost of diminished value due to increased time on engine and airframe , Capital costs due to inflation , ... Its a losing proposition , ...... Best to fall in love with the plane again , and enjoy your depreciating asset..... Quote
benpilot Posted June 3, 2013 Report Posted June 3, 2013 Hard to say but I know prices are falling on used aircraft. Those 700k Acclaim S can be had for 400k and 700k Bonanza G36 used selling for half price new. Same for used Cirrus. Used jets take an even bigger hit. Quote
Alan Fox Posted June 3, 2013 Report Posted June 3, 2013 Hard to say but I know prices are falling on used aircraft. Those 700k Acclaim S can be had for 400k and 700k Bonanza G36 used selling for half price new. Same for used Cirrus. Used jets take an even bigger hit. The newest Acclaim is 6 years old, and I don't think they are pulling 400K , A new Beech is 600 K and people are still buying them...... Quote
rob Posted June 3, 2013 Report Posted June 3, 2013 A new Beech is 600 K and people are still buying them...... At the rate of maybe one a year, and they're more than 600k IIRC. Quote
Alan Fox Posted June 3, 2013 Report Posted June 3, 2013 At the rate of maybe one a year, and they're more than 600k IIRC. If you are going to quote numbers , They sold 112 in 2006 , 69 in 2007 , 70 in 2008 , 37 in 2009 , 22 in 2010 ,25 in 2011 , and 10 in 2012 , currently they are 690K ......Not to mention 230 + Barons in the same time period......The fact that they are solvent is and of itself pretty amazing......Considering the state of the market , and also they came out of bankruptcy this year ..... Quote
benpilot Posted June 3, 2013 Report Posted June 3, 2013 Do you guys think that Mooney will ever come back and start making new planes again to compete with Cirrus and Beechcraft? Quote
Alan Fox Posted June 3, 2013 Report Posted June 3, 2013 No , for multiple reasons , A cirrus is much less expensive to build , the labor involved in making a composite airframe is about a third of an Aluminum one....That in of itself leaves a lot more room for profit , I think that the only reason Beech and Cessna are producing singles is because they already have the infrastructure in place to produce turboprops and jets and the singles dont have to cover the real costs of running a production facility....Also if you think the Chinese bought Piper to make a profit , you are mistaken.... I believe they bought Piper to learn how to produce aircraft for civillian markets , When they enter the market , the whole game will change....... Quote
benpilot Posted June 3, 2013 Report Posted June 3, 2013 Bummer as I am sure Mooney could give competition a serious run for the money. Used Mooney are some of the best GA aircraft ever made. Quote
rob Posted June 3, 2013 Report Posted June 3, 2013 If Mooney could be profitable, it would be profitable. The market seemingly has spoken. Quote
benpilot Posted June 6, 2013 Report Posted June 6, 2013 Unfortunately these days the marketplace is trying to woo newbie pilots with gee whiz bang computers plastic airplanes versus well built fast planes. Quote
rob Posted June 6, 2013 Report Posted June 6, 2013 I know, right? How dare they try to be innovative! I wonder if those flying wooden airplanes felt the same way about aluminum? 1 Quote
marks Posted June 15, 2013 Report Posted June 15, 2013 IMO you are "fairly priced", but all the buyers are looking for real deals and there are more airplanes than buyers. Quote
benpilot Posted June 15, 2013 Report Posted June 15, 2013 Well for the money, I find used Mooney a better value than new Cirrus. Quote
quik flite Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 In my opinion Mooney should have kept there dealer network and not sold out of the factory every chance they had ,Where did you need to go to see and touch a new one, if you even knew they existed. . Only a short trip to Kerrville. Its always nice to have stocking dealers and good management. Not to mention it sure helps if the factory is not the only one promoting there product. Just my opinion. Quote
rainman Posted June 16, 2013 Report Posted June 16, 2013 It looks like your pricing is close, but All American has a J with a G530 and real nice 1994 paint for $79K. Keep flying it and be flexible if you get an offer. Quote
contrails Posted June 18, 2013 Report Posted June 18, 2013 I'm back in the market and would consider it but like others have said there are a lot of airplanes for sale right now and few buyers. Quote
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