Questions on install for a new panel mount GPS...

[carusoam]

Scott,

How's the selection process going so far?

Garmin seems to be the only available WAAS GPS supplier for vertical guidance in place of ILS.

Old BK equipment, nonWAAS, is lower cost and easy to use. Great for non precision approaches and IFR training.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Scott -- here are the pictures I promised.

 

 

[scottfromiowa]

Scott, How's the selection process going so far? Garmin seems to be the only available WAAS GPS supplier for vertical guidance in place of ILS. Old BK equipment, nonWAAS, is lower cost and easy to use. Great for non precision approaches and IFR training. Best regards, -a-

Getting quotes......

[Marauder]

Getting quotes......

May the Force be with you! Oh forget that.. I forgot you have SHADOWMAN in your corner.

[Hank]

The fun part when I upgraded my 430 to WAAS during the half-price discount period was dismantling the interior, patching cracks and repainting. The old cable came out the left side of the panel, ran below the window then up between the windows and across the roof. The entire left side and both roof panels had to come out to access the stupid cable!

 

Getting it all back in was much worse. The rear seat must come out to get the left side panel off, the sunvisors come off to remove the front roof panel, etc., etc. But you will get a good look at the tubular steel safety cage, and you'll feel much safer. I did the remove and install myself, so the avionics shop only had to deal with sending the box out, reinstalling, changing the cable and putting a new antenna on top and sealing it in.

 

Now, the new GTNs require new trays, and it sounds like new antennas. Lord help me if the cable needs to be replaced a second time! When the time comes, I may convert to the new Bendix-King 440/540 if they are actually available for install [i've seen a demo unit, and it's nice! but not available] since it needs nothing new except training for me.

[Marauder]

The fun part when I upgraded my 430 to WAAS during the half-price discount period was dismantling the interior, patching cracks and repainting. The old cable came out the left side of the panel, ran below the window then up between the windows and across the roof. The entire left side and both roof panels had to come out to access the stupid cable! Getting it all back in was much worse. The rear seat must come out to get the left side panel off, the sunvisors come off to remove the front roof panel, etc., etc. But you will get a good look at the tubular steel safety cage, and you'll feel much safer. I did the remove and install myself, so the avionics shop only had to deal with sending the box out, reinstalling, changing the cable and putting a new antenna on top and sealing it in. Now, the new GTNs require new trays, and it sounds like new antennas. Lord help me if the cable needs to be replaced a second time! When the time comes, I may convert to the new Bendix-King 440/540 if they are actually available for install [i've seen a demo unit, and it's nice! but not available] since it needs nothing new except training for me.

It's going to look something like this:

[scottfromiowa]

Quick update: We have a couple of quotes.  One is from my old avionics installer that is now out of state, but still working on installations.  Other is in Iowa, but on West side of state.  Quote from Iowa has a used 430W at $9554 vs. 8000 for new...New 430W ARE still available from Garmin.  The install should be relatively straight forward as I already had panel updated and several years ago had the 300XL installed (VFR) with new co-ax.  Just last winter did interior re-do and windows so tubes inspected and all new insulation/removal of old completed.  The only panel "stuff" will be pulling the 300XL (receiving 1500 trade value) repositioning trays for 430.  Removing bonus vietnam era panel clock and wiring/installing new GI-106.  We will have cross talk line between 696 and fuel flow with 430.  One quote under $12AMU's with new.  One quote$13864 with used.  What quote would you do  ?

[Marauder]

Quick update: We have a couple of quotes. One is from my old avionics installer that is now out of state, but still working on installations. Other is in Iowa, but on West side of state. Quote from Iowa has a used 430W at $9554 vs. 8000 for new...New 430W ARE still available from Garmin. The install should be relatively straight forward as I already had panel updated and several years ago had the 300XL installed (VFR) with new co-ax. Just last winter did interior re-do and windows so tubes inspected and all new insulation/removal of old completed. The only panel "stuff" will be pulling the 300XL (receiving 1500 trade value) repositioning trays for 430. Removing bonus vietnam era panel clock and wiring/installing new GI-106. We will have cross talk line between 696 and fuel flow with 430. One quote under $12AMU's with new. One quote$13864 with used. What quote would you do ?

Just make sure they issuing a legal quote and not an estimate. Send in Shadowman... Many of these installers call it a quote but call you up mid installation saying they encountered issues that they expect you to pay.

[scottfromiowa]

May the Force be with you! Oh forget that.. I forgot you have SHADOWMAN in your corner.

Yes, My IFR rated Co-Owner (should he choose to proceed) is funding this project.  The tough call is the upgrade price delta to the 650 over the new 430W...The process is sobering as it is a LOT OF MONEY.  My contribution is the trade value for the 300XL and some return to ShadowMan on sale of aircraft some day...It's a great VFR panel now, but doesn't meet Co-Owners goal of an IFR certified aircraft.  Thanks again for your input.  If others recently had this install or really feel the value of the 650 (real-world) having used both is there would be interested in your input.

[scottfromiowa]

Just make sure they issuing a legal quote and not an estimate. Send in Shadowman... Many of these installers call it a quote but call you up mid installation saying they encountered issues that they expect you to pay.

Oh they both are quotes...The legaleeze is there for unseen damage, actual labor...blah, blah, blah.  There was $2400 and $2900 figured in labor.  If they can't do it in 24 hours they are going to have to look me in the eye and justify what the $#% they were doing. I know, I know...but that WILL BE discussed before signature.  Not my deal.

[Marauder]

Just make sure they issuing a legal quote and not an estimate. Send in Shadowman... Many of these installers call it a quote but call you up mid installation saying they encountered issues that they expect you to pay. Oh they both are quotes...The legaleeze is there for unseen damage, actual labor...blah, blah, blah. There was $2400 and $2900 figured in labor. If they can't do it in 24 hours they are going to have to look me in the eye and justify what the $#% they were doing. I know, I know...but that WILL BE discussed before signature. Not my deal.

And that is where the rub comes in. Hopefully they had a chance to look your plane over before they quoted it. I sent photos of my existing hardware complete with serial numbers, revision numbers, etc. just to make sure they knew what they were quoting. Even with all of that prep work, stuff came up. By then, you are quite literally with your pants around your ankles as they say they can't proceed unless they do something at an extra cost. My AP install went that way in the 90s. I was fortunate because in my line of work, I am well versed in quote requirements. And argued successfully that the legal quote they issued, was binding for the work they quoted. Not happy with me, but it was a lot of money.

[scottfromiowa]

Update. Going with the 650. Install labor is flat charge of $2.4 AMU's. extra only if needs co-ax,wire(damage in existing)or other surprises. There will be no more excuses for delaying my IFR ticket. Thanks again for all input!

[Marauder]

Update. Going with the 650. Install labor is flat charge of $2.4 AMU's. extra only if needs co-ax,wire(damage in existing)or other surprises. There will be no more excuses for delaying my IFR ticket. Thanks again for all input!

It didn't happen unless we get pictures afterwards! Congratulations! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[triple8s]

14.5 got me a 430 WAAS, NSD360 (non slaved), new panel on the left side, AI OH, IFR cert. and A/P maintenance work. It's really nice to have a GPS App capability. I can trust the instruments now.

[scottfromiowa]

14.5 got me a 430 WAAS, NSD360 (non slaved), new panel on the left side, AI OH, IFR cert. and A/P maintenance work. It's really nice to have a GPS App capability. I can trust the instruments now.

Nice. Pics? Did not see in gallery.

[rbridges]

Besides touch screen and larger display, do the 650 and 750 series have a lot more functionality than the 430 and 530?

[Marauder]

Besides touch screen and larger display, do the 650 and 750 series have a lot more functionality than the 430 and 530?

 

I bet Garmin would like you to think so...

 

I have been flying with a CFII buddy who has a 530. From his playing around the 650 in my plane, it sounds like the majority of the same functionality is there (I hear a lot of "oh, that's where that is" from him). The biggest obvious difference is the touch screens in the newer stuff and if I am not mistaken the ability to use a remote transponder on the 650/750 and a remote audio panel on the 750.

 

I'm sure the guys who have upgraded can tell you a bunch more detail.

[triple8s]

I dont have any pics yet and have been stuck inside with the the flu, (WX sucks too) today however I am gonna go down and at least look at it maybe, "rub" on it, set in it and go "vroom vroom" I'll get some pics then. I had been getting some dual in it before the flu because I got my IFR in a 172 and it is different in the Mooney, the 172 did have a similar panel. I talked with the avionics guy a long time before I got the upgrade and he told me it would be about 2-3K more for the GTN650 vs the 430waas. The reason was because it had to do with howmuch he had in it as he didnt have one at the time we started the talks. He said he would have to get a suitable unit then send it to Garmin for refurbish and that wasnt cheap but he said he wouldnt install it without it going through the factory.

[scottfromiowa]

Get well soon. A look at your bird is good medicine!

[ELT]

Hi Scott,

I put pix in my album as you requested.  I now have "economy" IFR equipment:  430W, second comm, 496, iPad/bad elf and iPhone with Foreflight, PC, transcoder,audio panel and hand held SP 200 radio attached to external antennae.  The iphone is mounted on the pilot's yoke.  Note the $5.00 bicycle iPhone mount sans the phone.

Sorry for the long time to post

eddie

[scottfromiowa]

No worries Eddie. Looks great! Thanks for posting pics