Buying with an Engine at TBO

[Buster1]

Guys/Gals,

I have no experience with aircraft ownership at all.  I am narrowing my search for the right 231 and have been researching options with a few that are out there with engines at or near TBO.  What is your recommendation in possibly doing this?  I realize that I will be quickly putting a "new" engine in.  If the price is right on the bird, and the PPI comes up clean, seems like a no brainer for me.

Additionally, I've got a few rough numbers on OHs but haven't actually called Penn Yan, Willmar, etc.  Say I buy with the intent to immedately OH, where would take my new Mooney to do this.  Any recommendations?

Thanks.

[N6843N]

Please download and read FAA AC43-11 it explains the term "overhaul" As well as other standards for aircraft engine repair. A hint; I could legally overhaul your engine today and next week it would need to be done again, ahhh service limits ya gotta love them.

[Cruiser]

There are two parts to an engine overhaul.

1. The internal part: Working on the engine itself, inspecting and replacing pieces/parts to reset the TBO clock to "0" SMOH. This is pretty straight forward and many engine specialty shops can take care of it.

2. All the other stuff that is involved forward of the firewall. The biggest of these are propeller, governor and exhaust but also included are hoses, baffles, pumps etc. and on 231's turbos.

So, any MSC that has a good reputation is an ideal place to take the plane. They can work on all the "other stuff" while the engine is sent to the overhaul shop of choice. Many MSC's work with an overhaul shop and will handle the entire package for you. Call around and get some quotes.

For me, the benefit of buying at runout is not to get a good price. You will probably find that the opposite is true. Finding a plane in good overall condition with a runout engine is not going to be the best priced on the market. What you do get is the knowledge and peace of mind in knowing EXACTLY what condition you have in the engine and major systems of the plane that you are not as certain about if someone else has cared for an engine, airframe and propeller that is at midtime. 

[airkraft]

I do agree with Cruiser.  Have a good Mooney Service Center or a truly savvy Mooney AI remove and re-install the engine. There are a lot of variables on a turbo Mooney installation that can affect your satisfaction down the road.

I'd also employ one, if at all possible, for the PPI! 

As for engine shops, again, work with your MSC.  I've had excellent results with Western Skyways in Montrose, CO.  They overhauled 4 engines in planes that I fly frequently (IO-360A1A, O-320E2D, TSIO-520UB, TIO-540S1D). 

 

[Rustler]

Buster--

When I had my engine overhauled last summer, it was for exactly the reason Cruiser brings up: peace of mind that you know your engine is done exactly the way you want it. He's also correct in that the runout-engined airplane isn't always the least expensive. When I did mine, my A&P/IA and I decided from the outset to do a firewall forward overhaul; it was more expensive, but I know that everything is like I want it and that practically everything up front is new. Somewhere here on the site is the series of posts relative to that experience.

My overhaul was done by Western Skyways and I couldn't have been more pleased with the product and the service. They offered an added benefit because I wanted to have an engine with two, separate magnetos, and this meant that they would build the engine while I was still flying, then take mine in trade. The kicker here was that they did not hit me with a core-difference charge, whereas most shops quoted me $3000 for that.

Any MSC can work with you, which should make the overhaul easier to take. I'd count on at least 8 weeks, although that might be conservative.

[Kwixdraw]

I would not recommed you buy an aircraft right at TBO for your first ever own your own. The learning and spending curve can be awfully steep that first year or so. I would think that you would also want to fly the plane for a while to sort any bugs out of the other systems.  AOPA can give a lot of good advice about buying and owning an aircraft of your own. I would certainly agree with getting an MSC to do the prebuy and make sure they check for a proprer 208b inspection. You don't want to find out later you have a bunch of corroded tubing.  $$$$$  Lots of  things an get expensive when you have more than one set of eyes looking over a plane you are not personally familiar with.

[KSMooniac]

There is a lot of upside as mentioned for buying a runout and doing everything to your satisfaction firewall-forward.  Realistically, you might not find the exact plane you want (avioinics, cosmetics, etc.) that is also a runout or nearly so, so just be prepared.  If you can get one as close as possible, that would be best so long as the purchase price reflects the used-up engine.  The upside is if everything checks out with the PPI, plane has flown regularly, good oil analysis, etc., then there is no reason to keep flying it until you are ready to O/H (financially and schedule-wise).  You might even get quite a few "bonus" hours before taking it down for work. 

If it were me, I'd much rather be able to fly it for a year or so and make sure all the other items are addressed and the plane is what I had hoped before sinking all that money into it.  I concur with the advice to get a quality Mooney shop to do the R&R, especially with the fuel injection setup on reinstallation.  I've read that the TCM engines are quite tricky, and you really really need to make sure you have adequate fuel flow setup on the turbo engines. 

I also read a horror story about Western Skyways over on the AOPA forum from a poster with a Turbo Arrow (same engine as a 231).  It came back with some of the FI system components mis-installed, and a number of accessories failed in the first few hours too.  WS made it right, but it was a huge hassle.  Otherwise, they have a great reputation as far as I know.  I don't know anything about the shop that installed the engine, but my inference is that they were not very savvy with that engine, and perhaps a better shop could have identified the issues more easily, especially with the fuel system.