GTN 750 install 97' Encore

[driller]

Recently had Muncie Aviation in Indiana install a GTN 750 and remove the 430. After a little bit of discussion, they ended up being extremely competitive and I also received 5 hours of instruction from a very competent employee pilot. It would have been nice to keep the 430 but I needed the trade in value and down the road I will have a 650 put in when I can afford it.

Just wanted to share a couple photos.

curt

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Slick! Congratulations!

[stevesm20b]

Looks nice!

[Bennett]

Nicely done! The more I use the GTN 750, the better I like it. I opted to install a 430W under the GTN 750, mostly because my installing shop, Executive Aircraft Maintenance in Scottsdale, offered a still under warranty used one at an unbelievable discount. They had just removed it to do a GTN 650 installation in another aircraft. Some day, if I ever find the extra money, I will replace the 430W with at GTN 650. I really like the touch screens, and since i also have a Garmin 796 mounted in an Air Gizmos mount in my panel, the GTN 650 would keep the same general operating logic, and consistent iconry throughout the panel. I also opted for the remote transponder and audio panel as my M20J doesn't have as much panel space as the Encore and newer Mooneys. The GTN 750 has many features buried in its system, and it is really worthwhile to dig through Garmin's owners manual (online). As I understand it there will be a major firmware / software upgrade around October, so you might want to check with your installer.

[Oscar Avalle]

cool...

[yvesg]

Very nice job! How much did they give you for your 430? Was it a WAAS? I am on the market to get a used 430W or 530W to install in my 65C but find the prices way too high in all cases so I am still waiting...

Yves

C-FQKM

[flyboy0681]

Looks great. Your next upgrade should be GPS Steering, which I find indispensable with my 750. Being able to go point to point via a programmed flight plan without touching the yoke is the ultimate in coolness, right down to the approach.

[Bennett]

Concur with flybou0681. I have an Icarus SAM unit between the GTN750 and the KAP150. Hate to say it, but it really does holds and procedure turns better than I can hand flying. I program in sometimes complex flight plans, and the GPSS steering "anticipates" the turns, and when complete, the aircraft is centered perfectly on the new course. Gives me time to check for traffic -eyeballs and electronics, check weather via XM, fuel flow, temps, and all instruments, and in my opinion, be a more aware pilot - hence safer. Before all the replies come in, I do hand fly quite a bit - generally on the return legs, and for the descents, and I make it a skill test to nail the speeds, descent rates, etc. to be where I want, when I want. I think that the GPSS steering is helpful - a great tool, but I don't treat it as a crutch. Well worth the money, again in my opinion.

[driller]

Been out playing with the new gps. I'll look into the SAM unit after I get a real good feel for what the 750 can do without it. I'm old school and still love flying IFR without the flight director. Keeps us older guys crisp.

[flyboy0681]

Concur with flybou0681. I have an Icarus SAM unit between the GTN750 and the KAP150.

Bennett and I have identically equipped panels. In addition to the GPS Steering, the SAM module has audible alerts built in including GUMP check (or Gear Down), Decision Altitude, Target Altitude as well as a half dozen others. It's a marvelous unit.

[KSMooniac]

GPSS is a great bang-for-the-buck upgrade, and a huge safety increase for single-pilot IFR IMO. I've been enjoying it with WAAS for over 5 years now and continue to marvel at the capability. It also made a classmate of mine that flies a B-1 cry since his plane can't do any of that.

[Indianarob]

Looks nice I also had Muncie aviation install a GTN750 GPS, GTX33 mode S Xponder, GMA35 Audio panel and WX500 in my M20J in July 2012. They did an excellent job and was very competitive. What people really need to understand is that prices can vary greatly from shop to shop, but it really comes down to installations practices, for example do they install new wire or not. It is always good to have new wiring installed as there have been big changes in wiring requirements these days. But just make sure you know what you are paying for. When MAC does installation like this the normally calibrate all the interface boxes so that at the end of the day everythng works correctly. I took delivery and haven't any complaints to date.

Just wanted to let everyone know that MAC is competitve and does and excellent job. They have a great team.

I would recommend MAC for any installation.

Rob.

[Oscar Avalle]

I flew with a friend who has a 750 and a 650 installed in his Bonanza. I really liked it so much that I decided to go for it... I mean for the 750 (the 650 in addition to ... too much...)

So my bird is again undergoing some work between now and the holidays... I will post some pictures once I am done...

However, I have a question, does the 430W speak to the 750 and the 795, ie can you crossfill the flightplans?

Oscar

[TWinter]

Very nice install. Someday maybe..

[HeyChuck]

If you still have the KN-64 DME that was removed, would you care to sell it?

(Mine is on the fritz, and the avionics shop wants $1k to fix it.)

[carusoam]

Chuck as you like...

It was posted earlier today!

KN 64 DME $900

Or did I missunderstand???

-a-

[Oscar Avalle]

Well at the end I decided to change one of my 430 WAAS, the audio panel and my transponder for a GTN 750... cost 15k... after trade ins. I flew with a friend of mine in his A36 and I liked the GTN 750, I thought it was really cool to have everything in one panel. The only thing that did not convince me was that I would now have to rely on one box instead of three... but I guess and hope Garmin does a good work in terms of quality control.

[Oscar Avalle]

Nicely done! The more I use the GTN 750, the better I like it. I opted to install a 430W under the GTN 750, mostly because my installing shop, Executive Aircraft Maintenance in Scottsdale, offered a still under warranty used one at an unbelievable discount. They had just removed it to do a GTN 650 installation in another aircraft. Some day, if I ever find the extra money, I will replace the 430W with at GTN 650. I really like the touch screens, and since i also have a Garmin 796 mounted in an Air Gizmos mount in my panel, the GTN 650 would keep the same general operating logic, and consistent iconry throughout the panel. I also opted for the remote transponder and audio panel as my M20J doesn't have as much panel space as the Encore and newer Mooneys. The GTN 750 has many features buried in its system, and it is really worthwhile to dig through Garmin's owners manual (online). As I understand it there will be a major firmware / software upgrade around October, so you might want to check with your installer.

Can you cross fill from your gtn to you 430 and 796?

[Bennett]

The GTN 750 cross feeds to the 796. I deliberately kept the 430w as an isolated unit c

[KSMooniac]

The GNS series boxes can be cross-filled from the new GTN series after a software update to Ver. 5.0 or 5.01. However, if you have an Aspen or Voice Flight installed, be aware that Garmin changed their data stream (I believe they added encryption) and this has disabled some functionality with the 3rd party stuff. Aspen's Connected Panel concept seems like it has a lot of merit, and I suspect Garmin intentionally scrambled the data with the new software update just to cut them off at the knees...presumably to make a G500 system more attractive to customers. The opposite is true for me... I'm now MUCH more likely to upgrade to the Avidyne box(es) in the future because of that kind of behavior.

[Oscar Avalle]

Does it mean with 5.0 the gtn will not talk to my aspen?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[KSMooniac]

I believe some Aspen-Garmin functionality will be disabled with the 5.0 upgrade, but you should ask your avionics shop for the details. Apparently Aspen and Voice Flight had reverse-engineered the Garmin Aviation In/Out data streams to provide enhancements with their products, and Garmin has now scrambled that data.

[Marauder]

I believe some Aspen-Garmin functionality will be disabled with the 5.0 upgrade, but you should ask your avionics shop for the details. Apparently Aspen and Voice Flight had reverse-engineered the Garmin Aviation In/Out data streams to provide enhancements with their products, and Garmin has now scrambled that data.

Aspen sent out an email to owners talking about the issue. I will see if I can find it and publish it.

[Marauder]

Here is the letter from Aspen:

25 October 2012

To Aspen Customers:

Aspen Avionics has determined that the GNS 400W / 500W Series Unit Software Version 5.0, released on October 16, 2012, causes flight plan cross-fill issues with Aspen's Connected Panel systems. The GNS 400W / 500W cross-fill interface is based on a Garmin-proprietary language, and while Aspen has successfully interpreted the GNS-to-GNS data in previous Garmin software versions, we are at present unable to reach an agreement with Garmin to provide a functional interface with this latest version 5.0 release.

Aspen recommends that our dealers and customers who have already installed, or are planning to install, Connected Panel systems in their aircraft refrain from updating their GNS 400W / 500W systems until a functional flight plan cross-fill capability for Garmin's version 5.0 platform has been developed. It's also important for our dealers and customers to understand that once a GNS 400W / 500W unit has been upgraded to the version 5.0 software it cannot be restored with pre-5.0 software.

In addition, Aspen has been unable to obtain integration specifications that enable the EFD1000/500 products to display ADS-B data from the Garmin GDL-88 receiver. If you are considering ADS-B functionality, we advise you to wait to purchase products that are based on open, easy-to-integrate architecture. You are encouraged to contact Garmin to request that open integration specifications be provided to Aspen and other manufacturers to ensure broad industry compatibility.

You can be assured that your Evolution Flight Displays will be easily upgradable to display ADS-B data from compatible, affordable receivers that will be brought to market in the coming months, well before the mandate.

As an Aspen customer, you understand that the power of the Evolution Flight Display Systems and the Connected Panel product lines reside within their compatibility with a wide range of old and new avionics products. This interoperability among all avionics manufacturers reduces aircraft owners' overall equipment and installation costs, while guaranteeing the investments made in aircraft panels. Aspen will continue to foster an open integration philosophy within the avionics industry and urges all manufacturers to follow such an approach for the common good of general aviation.

[carusoam]

That sounds like a veiled, illegal commercial practice.

The scrambling doesn't provide any direct benefit to the Garmin does it?

Scrambling the signal that other boxes use, is a poor customer service attitude.

That could expose Garmin as a pretty poor competitor. If they haven't done that already.

That's all I have for a non-legal legal opinion.

It's good to have lawyers that fly Mooneys...as usual, I'm just an engineer. No legal background. YMMV.

Best regards,

-a-