Help deciding on new panel

[larryb]

Hello:

Please help me decide on new panel. It's time to update my '84 J-model factory original King panel (and 496 on the yoke) to a modern garmin stack. I'm looking for the most bang-for-the-buck.

Option 1:
350 audio panel
dual GTN 650's
GTX 330 xponder

Option 2:
350 audio panel
GTN 750
SL30
GTX 330 xponder

I may add a single tube Aspen, GDL88 or GDL69 as well.

Here are the pro's and con's as I see them:

Option 1 pro:
Dual GPS. If one fails I can still do GPS approaches with the other.
Fault determination. If there is a problem with one 650, I can swap them to determine if fault is in plane or unit.
Display 2 different data pages on each 650.
All radios fit in single stack, cleaner install.

Options 2 pro:
Bigger screen with 750.
Garmin FlightCharts available on 750 but not 650

I'm not a fan of a 750 with remote audio panel and txp. If the 750 fails I can't do anything at all. Single point of failure takes out too much.

I don't have my IR yet, but will be working on it shortly. So I don't really know how important it is to have the FlightCharts on the 750.

Thanks, Larry

[bd32322]

I would go with option 1 - for the same reasons you mentioned.

Although this isnt an option that you specified - for the audio panel - have you taken a look at PS Engineering audio panels? I dont have one - but they always seemed to have more features than the garmin units on paper. I understand if you want to have a complete garmin stack tho..

And the other thing I wouldnt upgrade is the transponder until the ADSB stuff settles down.

[KSMooniac]

If I were in your shoes, I'd look hard at the new Avidyne offerings before their promotional pricing expires at the end of the month.  I would go for a -540 and -440 combo.  In fact, if I didn't have other priorities right now, I would buy those to replace my -530W and -430W combo.  The Avidyne units aren't of course ready to install right now, so if you want/need to upgrade soon then this might not be an option.

I'd price the recurring cost of the Garmin data and FlightCharts before thinking that is a must-have.  I'm happy with my Android tablet solution for charts and plates for $60/yr and would not like to pay additional just to have the same stuff shown on my panel.  It doesn't really add to safety or situational awareness IMO if you already have a moving map GPS on the panel (or even a handheld).  If you're doing your job, you'll have the appropriate waypoints displayed on the panel-mount GPS and that should be sufficient to keep you from hitting things.  Seeing your plane over a big, rendered sectional is just "neat" but not helpful enough to justify the big money to feed it IMO.

It is a tough choice, but it is nice that we have so many options.

[KSMooniac]

I'll add another thought, if you don't already have a modern engine monitor, I'd make that a MUCH higher priority than a second GPS.  In fact, I'd probably install one of those before any GPS.  

I have a JPI EDM-700 with fuel flow currently, and am thinking about an upgrade to a -830 or -900/930, but I'm not sure exactly when or how I will accomplish that.  If I go for the -900/930 option to replace all of the OEM gauges, then I would like to re-do my panel from scratch, even if I don't add "major" boxes at this time.  I have a GMA-340, GNS-530W, -430W, GTX-330ES, plus a normal non-HSI 6 pack, two CDIs, electric AI, JPI in the main parts of the panel.  I'm leaning towards a new custom panel from scratch to delete the OEM engine/fuel instruments, but re-use everything else I currently have (for now).  I'm thinking about a PFD (likely an Apsen) down the road, but not at the same time due to budget.  Because of this, I think I would make a sub-panel where the 6-pack is installed that could be removed easily and replaced with another sub-panel with a flush-mount Aspen or G500 or product to be named later.  That would hopefully minimize installation costs in the future if I get 75% of the way there on the intermediate update.

[rbridges]

Quote: KSMooniac

I'll add another thought, if you don't already have a modern engine monitor, I'd make that a MUCH higher priority than a second GPS.  In fact, I'd probably install one of those before any GPS.  

 

[larryb]

Hi:

     I do already have the edm-700 and fs-450. So that is covered. I need to do this sooner than later, both my kx165 and kx155 are having intermittant problems. The 165 sometimes has greatly reduced sensitivity. It failed once on the bench, but not long enough for the shop to fix it. Then it never failed for the shop again, so it's back in the plane, and still intermittant. The 155 seems to have reduced TX and RX range, so maybe that's a connector/cable/antenna issue. The shop hasn't looked at that one yet. Since I want to upgrade, I don't want to spend a lot on the old radios. On the other hand, I don't want the plane down for a few weeks during flying season either...

Thanks, Larry

[fantom]

The JPI 900 for under five grand, all in, is very sweet.

Anyone want to buy a used JPI 700 with the latest factory upgrades?

[jlunseth]

I would definitely go with the large screen and the satwx, it is invaluable for any long trip.  I have a 430aw, it has never failed, and if it did, I have a second VOR for backup and after that, vectors from ATC. Weather is the bigger benefit.

[Bennett]

The GTN 750 is a wonderful box, with the right screen size. The remote audio panel has a fail safe mode to alow the use of one radio. The remote transponder cleans up the panel space, and is quite easy to use. The cloice of a SL 30 as the second GPS is a good one, but in my case I was able to pick up a 430W (used) at about the same price as a new SL30.  Higly recommend the JPI 830, or the newer version that makes it the primary instrumenr for MP/Tach/EGT/CHT/OT etc.  This would allow a major gain in panel space. Have fun with laying out your panel. 

[jlunseth]

I agree with the monitor recommendation.  Remember, though, that it has to be STC'd as primary (such as 930) before you can legally remove the factory gauges.

 

[rbridges]

Quote: larryb

Hi:

     I do already have the edm-700 and fs-450. So that is covered. I need to do this sooner than later, both my kx165 and kx155 are having intermittant problems. The 165 sometimes has greatly reduced sensitivity. It failed once on the bench, but not long enough for the shop to fix it. Then it never failed for the shop again, so it's back in the plane, and still intermittant. The 155 seems to have reduced TX and RX range, so maybe that's a connector/cable/antenna issue. The shop hasn't looked at that one yet. Since I want to upgrade, I don't want to spend a lot on the old radios. On the other hand, I don't want the plane down for a few weeks during flying season either...

Thanks, Larry

[fantom]

Quote: jlunseth

I agree with the monitor recommendation.  Remember, though, that it has to be STC'd as primary (such as 930) before you can legally remove the factory gauges.

 

[stevesm20b]

I would go with the 750 and SL30 with remote audio and txp in a single stack. The money saved by not having a second panel mount gps could buy a JPI730/830,  a garmin aera 560, and an ipad with forflight or wingx. A lot more bang for the buck. By the way I just replace my KX-170 with a Garmin GMA-350 and an SL30. I really like the 3D audio and playback of the 350. The SL30 is like having two coms and two navs in one radio. You can listen your active and standby com channels at the same time. The nav has a feature that lets you navigate on your active channel while reading the radial read out on the standby channel. A very handy feature when doing aproaches.

[larryb]

Thanks to all who have responded. I was looking for opinions on 650 vs 750, and as expected, got the spectrum.

I have just noticed that my elt antenna is located literally just inches from my comm2 antenna. I'm thinking that may have something to do with the poor rx/tx on that radio. It was like this when I bought the plane. Now I have to figure out what to do about this antenna problem...

Thanks, Larry 

[BobAustin]

Re reception and transmit on 155.  Had one in a Cessna 340 and my Mooney.  In both cases the 155 was better than the 340w and the 530 easily longer range.

You have a problem as someone pointed out...

Bob Yarbrough

N211ZN 85 Missile