Ryan ORL Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 On 1/25/2026 at 11:10 AM, Marc_B said: Mooney PN Dial Face Rochester PN 880024-001 5-1215 5404S01215 880024-003 5-1932 5404S01932 880024-005 5-2105 5404S02105 880024-007 5-02512 5404S02512 880024-009 5-2100 5404S02100 This thread got me to look at my gauges on my 84 J, which are hazed pretty good… turns out I have a different one, 5-01405, but it appears to at least superficially match 5-2105? Any idea why the discrepancy?
Will.iam Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 I have one that is hazed pretty bad too. Anybody have any luck with polishing compound that will remove the haze like they have for old oxidized car headlights?
Marc_B Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 @Ryan ORL that’s interesting. Perhaps my dial to Mooney PN is off? From a M20J IPC it looks like dial Mooney 880024-005. Can anyone with same PN confirm dial face? Was yours possibly replaced with something that looked similar but wasn’t the same??
Ryan ORL Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 It very well could have been replaced… I don’t recall seeing such a log entry (if they even made one), but unfortunately all my logs before 2001 or so are 90% handwritten so quite hard to search.
CCAS Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 On 2/26/2026 at 9:49 PM, Marc_B said: From a M20J IPC it looks like dial Mooney 880024-005. Can anyone with same PN confirm dial face? From my 1989 M20J: Mooney p/n 880024-005 Rochester Dial Face: 5-2105 1
skykrawler Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 On 1/24/2026 at 7:27 PM, GeeBee said: Lasar now has them in stock. 165 per unit I believe. I bought two for stock last month. That is a criminal markup.
MikeOH Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 21 minutes ago, skykrawler said: That is a criminal markup. That seems to be their new business model, I'm afraid
Schllc Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 21 minutes ago, skykrawler said: That is a criminal markup. What’s even worse, is that even with that criminal mark up for a $1.00 part, they won’t stock the damn things! 2
EricJ Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 59 minutes ago, Schllc said: What’s even worse, is that even with that criminal mark up for a $1.00 part, they won’t stock the damn things! Yeah, you'd think they'd keep stuff around that could make bank on, but it seems to be outside their current business model.
GeeBee Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 I am a little more sanguine about it. First, a part in stock and on the shelf makes you no money. It is like placing money on a shelf. It makes no interest. It may rise in value but usually only at the rate of inflation. That is why everybody works "just in time" inventory or as close to it as one can get. The demand for things like these wing gauges is not going to go elsewhere. The demand for something like an oil filter can walk from say Aircraft Spruce to AirPower or Chief. So it is a logical business model to build up a demand then order from the manufacturer the minimum to fulfill the demand. I see this same process in the marine industry. These days, working capital is very precious and no one is going to trap that money on the shelf without a good business reason, i.e. competition to do so. All I ask is the supplier of the parts keeps accurate order demand and is responsive to the demand when that demand fulfills the requirements for a production run. So far Lasar seems to be doing that much better than others in the past. 1
Fly Boomer Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 6 hours ago, skykrawler said: That is a criminal markup. As my ex always said before dinner, "We have two choices tonight -- take it or leave it".
EricJ Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 3 hours ago, GeeBee said: I am a little more sanguine about it. First, a part in stock and on the shelf makes you no money. It is like placing money on a shelf. It makes no interest. It may rise in value but usually only at the rate of inflation. That is why everybody works "just in time" inventory or as close to it as one can get. The demand for things like these wing gauges is not going to go elsewhere. The demand for something like an oil filter can walk from say Aircraft Spruce to AirPower or Chief. So it is a logical business model to build up a demand then order from the manufacturer the minimum to fulfill the demand. I see this same process in the marine industry. These days, working capital is very precious and no one is going to trap that money on the shelf without a good business reason, i.e. competition to do so. All I ask is the supplier of the parts keeps accurate order demand and is responsive to the demand when that demand fulfills the requirements for a production run. So far Lasar seems to be doing that much better than others in the past. Just In Time makes sense for manufacturers or for large parts (engines, etc.), where warehousing costs can get significant. Even then it adds a ton of risk for sensitivity to supply chain perturbations, as seen in recent history. A spare parts supplier exists to meet random demand, not scheduled demand, like for manufacturing, so a JIT model doesn't make as much sense and just means that if a customer can't get it from you they just explore different options, which is not in your interest (at least not to typical part suppliers, LASAR seems to be thinking out of the box). That's often seen here where people find alternate suppliers or explore OPP options. If a supplier was reliable for having parts available at reasonable (or even supportable) cost, they'd get business. LASAR is earning a reputation for not having parts available and charging unsupportable prices. The gauges in question are small and light and don't have special storage requirements (temperature, humidity, whatever) and we already know are not expensive to obtain. I don't think the warehousing expense argument relative to JIT is pertinent here from any angle. 3
GeeBee Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 1 hour ago, EricJ said: Just In Time makes sense for manufacturers or for large parts (engines, etc.), where warehousing costs can get significant. Even then it adds a ton of risk for sensitivity to supply chain perturbations, as seen in recent history. A spare parts supplier exists to meet random demand, not scheduled demand, like for manufacturing, so a JIT model doesn't make as much sense and just means that if a customer can't get it from you they just explore different options, which is not in your interest (at least not to typical part suppliers, LASAR seems to be thinking out of the box). That's often seen here where people find alternate suppliers or explore OPP options. If a supplier was reliable for having parts available at reasonable (or even supportable) cost, they'd get business. LASAR is earning a reputation for not having parts available and charging unsupportable prices. The gauges in question are small and light and don't have special storage requirements (temperature, humidity, whatever) and we already know are not expensive to obtain. I don't think the warehousing expense argument relative to JIT is pertinent here from any angle. But you make my point. Warehousing costs are significant for a large operator, imagine how significant it is for a small operators with minimal working capital. If there was competition for Mooney parts, LASAR would likely stock more but there is no incentive to do so since they are the oracle. They paid a significant sum (in their world) to be the oracle and they are going to maximize it. If I were them, I would not worry about parts that have alternate suppliers or easily OPP'd. You can't win those competitions and you can go broke trying to win those competitions. When I was 16 I suddenly found myself the fuel manager at the FBO I was employed with. I didn't seek it but a heart attack put me in that position. We had 80% of the market on the field, because we had the cheapest fuel. We also were losing 5 cents a gallon on every gallon we pumped. I cut the hours we operated and I raised the price 10 cents. Our market share dropped to 51% but we were making 15 cents on every gallon versus losing 5 cents. Don't chase business that makes you lose money. I also saw this in the airline business with management trying to create the lowest cost per seat mile by beating up their employees and saying if we had low costs we would make it up on volume with cheap fares. We finally got management that stopped chasing the "cheap business", paid us well to service the high margin customers. We became the most wildly profitable airline in the history of airlines. Again, stop chasing the cheap business. The margins are not there. 1
IvanP Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, GeeBee said: But you make my point. Not sure what your point is here. It seems that the proposition you are making is for LASAR to make parts not only prohibitively expensive, but also scarce to further justify the price point. That may work for a while, but it does not seem to be a viable long-term solution. For one, I do not mind paying substantial premium for expedient delivery of something I really need, be it an airplane part or anything else, but i tend to think twice when asked to pay premium to someone who cannot even guarantee delivery. I can see that OPP will be greatly expaning in the near future. There are few examples of such predatory behavior not being rewarded by the markets in the long term. I do not think that anyone is asking LASAR/Mooney to lose money on every part they sell, as it was claimed oin one of teh recent press releases and which may or may not be true, but having reasonable supply of comonly needed parts at reasonable price rather than at 1,000% markup would not seem to be out of reach. Edited March 1 by IvanP 1
GeeBee Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 I call tell you for a fact they were losing money on every part one because I know someone who has looked at the financials and told me, and two, because I purchased a tail stinger sheet metal covering. As I said earlier it was 400 dollars and it came alodined and chromate primed on the inside. There is no way you can make money at 400 dollars on that part and even with the 30% increase recently in place it is still a money loser. Compared to what profitable companies like Textron is charging, there is no way this can continue.
vorlon1 Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 11 hours ago, Fly Boomer said: As my ex always said before dinner, "We have two choices tonight -- take it or leave it". Which contributed to her being the "ex", yes? 1 2
IvanP Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 13 hours ago, GeeBee said: I call tell you for a fact they were losing money on every part one because I know someone who has looked at the financials and told me, and two, because I purchased a tail stinger sheet metal covering. As I said earlier it was 400 dollars and it came alodined and chromate primed on the inside. There is no way you can make money at 400 dollars on that part and even with the 30% increase recently in place it is still a money loser. Compared to what profitable companies like Textron is charging, there is no way this can continue. The "someone told me" argumnent is about as realiable and persuasive as it gets Someone I know told me the earth is flat, but that does not necessarily make it true. As for your tailcone sheetmetal pricing - good for you, that was a good deal. Before LASAR takeover and price increase, I purchased the inner gear door for my Bravo through LASAR (drop shipped from Mooney). At $1,900 for a small piece of aluminum sheetmetal I doubt either Mooney or Lasar "lost" money on this transaction. Again, I did not mind paying the price becasue i needed the part fast and Mooney delivered within few days. At that time LASAR merely placed the Mooney and took their markup (no idea what that was). The part came directly from Kerville, Lasar never touched it. 1
EricJ Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 17 hours ago, GeeBee said: But you make my point. Then you missed mine. 1
dkkim73 Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 On 2/26/2026 at 8:47 PM, Will.iam said: I have one that is hazed pretty bad too. Anybody have any luck with polishing compound that will remove the haze like they have for old oxidized car headlights? Curious if this works. After I put new ones in recently I followed a suggestion from here and put a little circle of autobody protector film over each.
IvanP Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 3 minutes ago, dkkim73 said: Curious if this works. After I put new ones in recently I followed a suggestion from here and put a little circle of autobody protector film over each. Any tips on how to get the old ones out? I have a set of new gauges, but did not get around to change them yet. my plane has fairly recent paint and I do not wantt o screw it up.
GeeBee Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 1 hour ago, IvanP said: The "someone told me" argumnent is about as realiable and persuasive as it gets Someone I know told me the earth is flat, but that does not necessarily make it true. As for your tailcone sheetmetal pricing - good for you, that was a good deal. Before LASAR takeover and price increase, I purchased the inner gear door for my Bravo through LASAR (drop shipped from Mooney). At $1,900 for a small piece of aluminum sheetmetal I doubt either Mooney or Lasar "lost" money on this transaction. Again, I did not mind paying the price becasue i needed the part fast and Mooney delivered within few days. At that time LASAR merely placed the Mooney and took their markup (no idea what that was). The part came directly from Kerville, Lasar never touched it. All you have to do is look at the results. Is Mooney still a viable plane maker? Nope. Has the Mooney factory had the working capital to deliver parts from vendors? Nope. I would point to both no-back springs and the current subject, wing gauges and it is clear it was Lasar working capital that got both those critical items produced. Look at what Mooney was doing. As a parts manufacturer, they were selling museum piece airplanes like the Predator just to make payroll and trying to cobble together a new Ovation from spares in hopes to sell. Go read the meeting minutes of the KERV airport board when they came looking for their rent from Mooney. I also have it on good authority (a Mooney MSC) that Lasar gave Mooney 1 million for the parts operation. Hence the ill-fated "Mooney Assurance" program. If you can read a room you can see what I am saying is true, because what has transpired has revealed it. You can complain about 1900 for a gear door, but Bonanza owners are paying 7000 each for new ruddervator skins. What's the difference? Textron is a going concern. 1
IvanP Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 2 hours ago, GeeBee said: You can complain about 1900 for a gear door. I did not complain about the price of the door, I gladly paid it (read the post again). I merely stated my opinion that the sellers did not lose money on the transaction. You seem to be of the opinion that rising prices is a panacea that will save otherwise failing business. The markets have shown repeatedly that such oversimplification is not true. While I am not an expert on aircraft manufacturing, I believe that Mooney failed for many other reasons than selling their product below cost. We are all entitled to our own opinions. 2
GeeBee Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 3 hours ago, IvanP said: I did not complain about the price of the door, I gladly paid it (read the post again). I merely stated my opinion that the sellers did not lose money on the transaction. You seem to be of the opinion that rising prices is a panacea that will save otherwise failing business. The markets have shown repeatedly that such oversimplification is not true. While I am not an expert on aircraft manufacturing, I believe that Mooney failed for many other reasons than selling their product below cost. We are all entitled to our own opinions. There certainly are other reasons, and low pricing is not the only reason, but when you look at what other manufacturers are charging you know that Mooney parts prices were too low, especially for an aircraft manufacturer producing no other product. Raising prices may not be a panacea, but it buys time and resources to fix the rest of the business and create value in the product. I found that out when my airline emerged from bankruptcy.
dkkim73 Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 6 hours ago, IvanP said: Any tips on how to get the old ones out? I have a set of new gauges, but did not get around to change them yet. my plane has fairly recent paint and I do not wantt o screw it up. First, I am not willing to take responsibility for any nightmares you have viewing the following pictures. Initially, I considered prying them up. But the seam is very narrow, the paint adjacent, and I had previously installed them quite securely (potted in RTV silicone as opposed to a dab of Whatever from the factory). They did not budge with modest force, so I did a variant of something I read about here. A good universal/coarse pitch wood screw delivered adequate purchase, followed by a firm pull/twist with a vice grip: Then I carefully scraped out the silicone. I did use a brass brush (toothbrush-type gun cleaning brush), but in very limited manner to avoid adjacent paint. Some wiping with alcohol and a pinch of acetone. Paint is better than shown, there was some tape residue etc that makes the area look messier than it is.
GeeBee Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 Use this stuff. Let is soak overnight. https://www.amazon.com/Motorcraft-Zc30a-Remover-Silicone/dp/B00TO1QK7I/ref=sr_1_1_pp?crid=8K3YC0KWOLE8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Yqg6GuhCOzy0T4j6qeOgWpPJDmSti67rIRurBNgDwCswUSs-WYjOnxEBi1wGeGRgFtdlHKfevAOU4yMgW4NMneKGgz3EqhvlVY883nct2q6Ok6jjwjfS6_5P2JUbYZ6zemU4_P-ecmMp8QZaprRaeQ2Jee7YHpN9XLs3raC7h4cUnWdyvsLvmVGp5l06rLWLZ-i0a_2hmwj6NZkq-xtai6OrDDN0FBGbA7oWMolrz_SkddDyUH07AhP4Yg5VitokvFd_XrgFiua4thRCkdxgiELjS2Cera59h5BiCAID794.qCgbFxKEXcahW69hCLdAcRbwQP91c7QHG3eU_ykFwcU&dib_tag=se&keywords=motorcraft+silicone+gasket+remover&qid=1772417265&sprefix=motorcraft+silicon%2Caps%2C256&sr=8-1
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