Pilot Age and Insurance

[TangoTango]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

Not sure why you feel the need to twist what I said, but here is an example. 
I paid 750k for my house. I owe far less than that, in fact, the dirt is worth almost double that amount, but since I have a mortgage I am required to insure the house for whatever arbitrary amount the insurance company says it costs to replace. (Even though you would have to litigate to get them to pay that amount…).  So the insurance company says that by statute I must insure for 2 million. On top of this the law requires me to carry contents insurance for not less than 25% of the total value of the house. 
I do not have a 500k worth of contents inside my house, but wait, it gets better. 
anything of value over 1,000 I have to declare and pay additional premium or it is not covered!  
this is NOT because the insurance underwriters have to keep the lights on. This is 100% regulation induced. 
Why can’t I buy fire only?  The dirt is worth 3x what I owe, and there is no scenario where the real estate is destroyed. Because it isn’t legal. 
so my renewal went from 4800 a year to 9800 in one year, then two months after the premium was paid, the insurance company sent a letter saying they made a mistake and it is now actually 12k a year. Pay it or cancel the insurance with no refund. 
If the premium doesn’t go down next year, I will likely pay off the mortgage and tell them to pound sand. Only reason I haven’t so far is because I have a 2.2% interest mortgage. 
 

In my state there are no regulatory requirements for home insurance - it's just a requirement of the loanholder. Most people these days get conforming loans, and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac both have specific requirements on the type and amount of insurance or they won't buy the loan. Find a local bank that will hold the loan on their own books and you can negotiate whatever kind of requirements you want. 

[Schllc]

4 minutes ago, TangoTango said:

In my state there are no regulatory requirements for home insurance - it's just a requirement of the loanholder. Most people these days get conforming loans, and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac both have specific requirements on the type and amount of insurance or they won't buy the loan. Find a local bank that will hold the loan on their own books and you can negotiate whatever kind of requirements you want. 

That would require refinancing and increased interest rate would negate savings on insurance. If they don’t fix themselves I’ll just pay off the mortgage. 
but you can see how the government “help” actually punishes. 
 

I think if they required hard reserves to cover any predictable loss plus 25%, and let the market decide what it wanted it would normalize. 
We have reached a point where the attempts to regulate to the benefit of the public, merely provides infinite opportunities for the insurance companies to take advantage, and they absolutely do. It’s 51% to blame on regulation and the balance on unscrupulous corporate managment. 

Think property/car/airplanes market is messed up, look at healthcare. The government has destroyed that market. 

[Aaviationist]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

While NOT true of aviation insurance, yet, here in Kalifornia it is a law that you MUST purchase automobile insurance.  Yeah, I'd blame 'regulation'!!  Pretty naive to think insurance lobbyists weren't involved in getting that law passed!  Or to think being FORCED to buy a product doesn't affect rates! NOT what'd I'd call free-market capitalism at work.

In California you ARE required to have at least liability insurance in your aircraft if registered in the state. I believe there are 11 states with this mandate. 

[Jackk]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Interesting hypothesis - That pilots are superior to other humans - mentally, health wise, physical response/stamina/limitations, they don't age as fast. they don't deteriorate, etc.  And not just "superior" but vastly superior....Forget the fact that the biggest impediment stopping the average automobile driver from also possessing a pilot license/owning a plane is a BIG FAT BANK ACCOUNT/CHECKBOOK.

And now MOSAIC allows "older pilots", that can't pass a traditional flight physical, or even the easier to pass BASICMED, to fly with just the same ridiculously easy to obtain (qualified or not) driver's license that those lowly automobile drivers use to qualify them to drive.

 Nah it’s a fact

 

 not even joking for 80% of people 

 

Ifs not just a matter of money, the average ground dweller spends tons more of a new crap box car that they are so rich they don’t even take care of.

 

It’s a matter of if discipline, grit, IQ, not eating pills or needing drugs, etc.

 

 Going to a group of non pilots, say a NFL game, new years even party, vs a pilot pancake fly in,  the conversation etc it’s often a different breed, I would bunch pilots into groups like sailing, skydiving, long range shooting, SCCA etc 

[Jackk]

39 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

In California you ARE required to have at least liability insurance in your aircraft if registered in the state. I believe there are 11 states with this mandate. 

 What a joke.

 First off last I checked CA doesn’t have preemption over the rules of the sky.

 That’s a law I’d just not comply with, as I feel it is my duty as a American to not follow unconstitutional or immoral “laws”

Second forcing folks to buy insurance is as child like as thinking you are OWED a “fair” life,  but it isn’t fairrrrr waaaahhhhhh

 

 If you can tolerate the risk, YOU are free to buy insurance to mitigate said perceived risk onto.  (Not saying you personally).

 

 

[Aaviationist]

Yes. Who knew that a simple plastic card could wipe out 100 years of genetics and aging research. 

[Jackk]

Just now, Aaviationist said:

Yes. Who knew that a simple plastic card could wipe out 100 years of genetics and aging research. 

 I don’t think the plastic does anything 

 

 I think what it takes to get the plastic and maintain the ability to use the plastic, well that’s a different story. 
 

 One thing I have learned over the last few decades is that people who make a living as researchers or economists, also big box “science”, are best ignored or laughed at

 Genetics wise I’d say having to meet the FAAs standards and prove it every year to 6mo, or even for basic medical, puts you above many of the average local 

[Aaviationist]

1 minute ago, Jackk said:

 What a joke.

 First off last I checked CA doesn’t have preemption over the rules of the sky.

 That’s a law I’d just not comply with, as I feel it is my duty as a American to not follow unconstitutional or immoral “laws”

Second forcing folks to buy insurance is as child like as thinking you are OWED a “fair” life,  but it isn’t fairrrrr waaaahhhhhh

 

 If you can tolerate the risk, YOU are free to buy insurance to mitigate said perceived risk onto.  (Not saying you personally).

 

 

Liability insurance isn’t a “rule of the sky”. It’s not a flight activity. It absolutely is legal and enforced. Federally there is no requirement,  but there is absolutely  nothing preventing states from enacting this requirement (just like car insurance)

 

There is nothing in the constitution that would eliminate this and is not a “constitutional issue”

[Aaviationist]

2 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 I don’t think the plastic does anything 

 

 I think what it takes to get the plastic and maintain the ability to use the plastic, well that’s a different story. 
 

 One thing I have learned over the last few decades is that people who make a living as researchers or economists, also big box “science”, are best ignored or laughed at

 Genetics wise I’d say having to meet the FAAs standards and prove it every year to 6mo, or even for basic medical, puts you above many of the average local 

And that’s where it’s made abundantly clear you have no qualifications in science. 

[Jackk]

7 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

Liability insurance isn’t a “rule of the sky”. It’s not a flight activity. It absolutely is legal and enforced. Federally there is no requirement,  but there is absolutely  nothing preventing states from enacting this requirement (just like car insurance)

 

There is nothing in the constitution that would eliminate this and is not a “constitutional issue”

 To me it is

 

 CA could make it a law that I have to jump off a bridge, but you wouldn’t see me doing it 

 

 I think forcing me to join private insurance is a 1A issue per freedom of association 

I think forcing me to act, is a violation of the commercial clause Art1 Sec 8 Clause 3

[Jackk]

4 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

And that’s where it’s made abundantly clear you have no qualifications in science. 

 

  I’ve oddly had a much better track record of separating what’s BS and what’s true vs the “scientists” who love the television camera 

  Just curious, how many covid shots have you had?

How many boosters?

[LANCECASPER]

21 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 

  I’ve oddly had a much better track record of separating what’s BS and what’s true vs the “scientists” who love the television camera 

  Just curious, how many covid shots have you had?

How many boosters?

Please don't take Mooneyspace that direction. Leave the politics out of this forum and let's just talk about things related to airplanes, specifically Mooney.

[MikeOH]

3 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Interesting hypothesis - That pilots are superior to other humans

THAT is NOT at all what I said.  You are TWISTING my words to suit your needs!

My point was that by virtue of the requirements to be a pilot, both medical requirements (Class Medicals, or even just Basic Med) and testing and currency requirements (though you may 'make fun' of them) are FAR more onerous to maintain a pilot's certificate than a State driver's license.  That is what makes pilots, as a subset of the general population, a lower risk.

[Jackk]

27 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Please don't take Mooneyspace that direction. Leave the politics out of this forum and let's just talk about things related to airplanes, specifically Mooney.

 Apologies, I was replying to this personal attack 

 

 

57 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

And that’s where it’s made abundantly clear you have no qualifications in science. 

 

[Hank]

16 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

My point was that by virtue of the requirements to be a pilot, both medical requirements (Class Medicals, or even just Basic Med) and testing and currency requirements (though you may 'make fun' of them) are FAR more onerous to maintain a pilot's certificate than a State driver's license.  That is what makes pilots, as a subset of the general population, a lower risk.

True dat! I've.had driver's licenses in GA, AL, GA again, NC, OH and AL again over the last four and a half decades. I've taken three (3) written tests (20 questions each) and one driving test with a trooper (at age 16, lasted about 6 minutes), but my last written test I didnt even read the pamphlet for. I got a boating endorsement by taking a 20-question written test after reading the pamphlet twice, without even showing a picture of my boat.

I've been flying for 19 years; I've taken two lengthy written tests; had two multi-hour oral exams; had two 1.5 - 2 hour checkrides with DPEs; three checkride prep flights with various CFIs; looks like eight (8) BFRs, and probably five or six IPCs (I voluntarily do one every year now), plus one voluntary ride with a CFI to assess my ability during a difficult medical experience (during which I kept driving daily), two MAPA PPP ground and air weekends, and probably seven or eight Mooney Summits for additional training and education. It takes a lot more mental work to fly than to drive . . . .

I've even finished long drives (500+ miles, 10 hours or so with fuel and food stops) where there are parts that I don't remember because I got sleepy, further proof that driving is easier than flying. 

[Jackk]

4 minutes ago, Hank said:

True dat! I've.had driver's licenses in GA, AL, GA again, NC, OH and AL again over the last four and a half decades. I've taken three (3) written tests (20 questions each) and one driving test with a trooper (at age 16), but my last written test I didnt even read the pamphlet for. I got a boating endorsement by taking a 20-question written test after reading the pamphlet twice, without even showing a picture of my boat.

I've been flying for 19 years; I've had two checkrides with DPEs; three checkride prep flights with various CFIs; looks like eight (8) BFRs, and probably five or six IPCs (I voluntarily do one every year now), plus one voluntary ride with a CFI to assess my ability during a difficult medical experience (during which I kept driving daily), two MAPA PPP ground and air weekends, and probably seven or eight Mooney Summits for additional training and education. It takes a lot more mental work to fly than to drive . . . .

I've even finished long drives (500+ miles, 10 hours or so with fuel and food stops) where there are parts that I don't remember because I got sleepy, further proof that driving is easier than flying. 

^that

 

  I don’t know a single pilot who can’t drive 

 

 Yet most with a auto DL can’t fly 

 

 Landed a older 2 place tailwheel at a airport that has a onfield diner, I walked out and a guy walking to his newish Silverado 4 door asked me about flying and I must be rich thing.  I asked him if he bought the truck new, he did, I explained for that price he could have bought the plane we flew in on and got his PPL.  I asked if he financed it for 48mo or more, he did, I explained he could have also got his commmerical plots license with money to spare.

 The idea it’s just money is laughable 

Edited December 22, 2025 by Jackk

[IvanP]

2 hours ago, Aaviationist said:

In California you ARE required to have at least liability insurance in your aircraft if registered in the state. I believe there are 11 states with this mandate. 

Could you please cite the relevant CA law that mandates aircraft insurance for part 91 aircraft operations? It would also be helpful for all of us here to cite the specific laws in the other 10 states you mentioned. That way we can make better choices about our aircraft and risk management.

Thank you,

[IvanP]

13 minutes ago, Jackk said:

^that

 

  I don’t know a single pilot who can’t drive 

 

 Yet most with a auto DL can’t fly 

Apparently, some California CDL holders cannot drive either  

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, IvanP said:

Could you please cite the relevant CA law that mandates aircraft insurance for part 91 aircraft operations? It would also be helpful for all of us here to cite the specific laws in the other 10 states you mentioned. That way we can make better choices about our aircraft and risk management.

Thank you,

EXACTLY!

Willing to be corrected, but for non-commercial private operations, even Kalifornia has no law requiring even liability insurance for aircraft.

[Aaviationist]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

True dat! I've.had driver's licenses in GA, AL, GA again, NC, OH and AL again over the last four and a half decades. I've taken three (3) written tests (20 questions each) and one driving test with a trooper (at age 16, lasted about 6 minutes), but my last written test I didnt even read the pamphlet for. I got a boating endorsement by taking a 20-question written test after reading the pamphlet twice, without even showing a picture of my boat.

I've been flying for 19 years; I've taken two lengthy written tests; had two multi-hour oral exams; had two 1.5 - 2 hour checkrides with DPEs; three checkride prep flights with various CFIs; looks like eight (8) BFRs, and probably five or six IPCs (I voluntarily do one every year now), plus one voluntary ride with a CFI to assess my ability during a difficult medical experience (during which I kept driving daily), two MAPA PPP ground and air weekends, and probably seven or eight Mooney Summits for additional training and education. It takes a lot more mental work to fly than to drive . . . .

I've even finished long drives (500+ miles, 10 hours or so with fuel and food stops) where there are parts that I don't remember because I got sleepy, further proof that driving is easier than flying. 

And again, absolutely none of that has anything to do with science or genetics. 

[Jackk]

2 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

And again, absolutely none of that has anything to do with science or genetics. 

 Can you elaborate why this isn’t both scientific and somewhat genetic? (Per medical conditions and passing a flight physical or getting  a doc to sign off with their medical license for basic?)

[N201MKTurbo]

5 hours ago, MikeOH said:

While NOT true of aviation insurance, yet, here in Kalifornia it is a law that you MUST purchase automobile insurance.  Yeah, I'd blame 'regulation'!!  Pretty naive to think insurance lobbyists weren't involved in getting that law passed!  Or to think being FORCED to buy a product doesn't affect rates! NOT what'd I'd call free-market capitalism at work.

Don’t they only require liability? That is pretty cheap in the aviation world.

[Aaviationist]

41 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

EXACTLY!

Willing to be corrected, but for non-commercial private operations, even Kalifornia has no law requiring even liability insurance for aircraft.

Just because you don’t know about it or are in non compliance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. 
 

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/06-15-2017-uninsured-flying-naked#:~:text=Aircraft owners are not universally required to,purchase some level of aircraft liability insurance.

 

 

https://le.utah.gov/~2021/bills/static/HB0077.html

 

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2023/pub/chap_267.htm

 

California specifically falls under the aircraft financial responsibilities act I believe. Ask AOPA. I’m not a legal resource. 

[Aaviationist]

20 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 Can you elaborate why this isn’t both scientific and somewhat genetic? (Per medical conditions and passing a flight physical or getting  a doc to sign off with their medical license for basic?)

Your ability to take a test is not related to science or genetics in any way. It’s really not that complicated. 
 

I don’t know what you want to further discuss in 2 topics that are in no way related to each other, but yet you are somehow smarter than scientists? 

Edited December 22, 2025 by Aaviationist

[Aaviationist]

9 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Don’t they only require liability? That is pretty cheap in the aviation world.

Yes.