Buyer's agent?

[jordanschooler]

Hi all, I hope this is appropriate for this forum. Can anyone recommend a good buyer's agent? I'm interested in purchasing but it will be my first airplane and I think I'd benefit from professional help. 

[hammdo]

Jimmy at GMAX

[Yetti]

48 minutes ago, jordanschooler said:

Hi all, I hope this is appropriate for this forum. Can anyone recommend a good buyer's agent? I'm interested in purchasing but it will be my first airplane and I think I'd benefit from professional help. 

You can post the plane here and get some pretty good feedback.     Savey Aviation has a buyers program also. 

[jordanschooler]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

You can post the plane here and get some pretty good feedback.     Savey Aviation has a buyers program also. 

One question I have for people is whether this price is reasonable: https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/249270527/1979-mooney-m20j-piston-single-aircraft

Obviously it has a lot of upgrades and looks amazing. But I see multiple Ovations and Ks for less. Then again probably most who put so much into upgrades aren't selling quickly. 

[Fritz1]

think what you want is a pre-purchase inspection, Weber in Lancaster PA and C&W in Caldwell NJ are knowledgeable service centers

[Fritz1]

the avionics and the interior make this airplane unusual, Jimmy Garrison at GMAXAmerican is the best person to determine value, others will chime in regarding a pre purchase inspection in Kentucky

[LANCECASPER]

40 minutes ago, jordanschooler said:

One question I have for people is whether this price is reasonable: https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/249270527/1979-mooney-m20j-piston-single-aircraft

Obviously it has a lot of upgrades and looks amazing. But I see multiple Ovations and Ks for less. Then again probably most who put so much into upgrades aren't selling quickly. 

That is an early J that has been for sale since the minute the owner finished it in 2023. He started out selling it himself at well over $300,000. I think he thought he was going to make a killing on it.

Now it's with a broker for a lot less, but still higher than any other early J has ever sold for. After 2-1/2 years the market has spoken. No one else has felt it's worth that. I would hate to be the only one who did.

The first step is take the emotion out of it and disregard all of the new paint, nice interior and new panel. Have someone who is a Mooney expert and objective go through the logbooks with a fine tooth comb. If it passes that then negotiate the price you're willing to pay, put a deposit down  and then have someone objective do a pre-buy, with the seller paying for all airworthy items found and see where it goes from there. 

[Echo]

I would want split cnvertible seats and a lower time engine for that spend.  That is ALL the money...

[Jackk]

In the nicest way, if you don’t have time to research and look at airplane adds  I’d say owning might not be a good idea 

[Echo]

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/250100767/1996-mooney-m20j-mse-piston-single-aircraft

[varlajo]

4 minutes ago, Echo said:

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/250100767/1996-mooney-m20j-mse-piston-single-aircraft

"Complete major overhaul at FAA approved facility" is such a lovely way to say "field overhauled", isn't it?? 

[jordanschooler]

9 minutes ago, Jackk said:

In the nicest way, if you don’t have time to research and look at airplane adds  I’d say owning might not be a good idea 

If your point is that this requires a lot of effort and knowledge, it is well taken. But I would also argue that the ads only tell you what people are asking, not what they are getting. Some sale prices are highly negotiable and others not at all, and people familiar with aircraft purchasing will have a better sense for this than I would. And there is context such as that provided a few posts up that can be helpful. (In my defense, I did enough research to identify this one as an outlier.)

[LANCECASPER]

6 minutes ago, jordanschooler said:

If your point is that this requires a lot of effort and knowledge, it is well taken. But I would also argue that the ads only tell you what people are asking, not what they are getting. Some sale prices are highly negotiable and others not at all, and people familiar with aircraft purchasing will have a better sense for this than I would. And there is context such as that provided a few posts up that can be helpful. (In my defense, I did enough research to identify this one as an outlier.)

You're doing fine. You're asking first and gathering information. Many times people come on here just after purchasing an airplane and later wish after that they had asked more questions first. 

[dkkim73]

Replied PM with some specific recs.

Re: the time to do it yourself. Well, if you don't want to noodle the details yourself (time, unsure of knowledge breadth, tech knowledge, preference, etc) then a good buyer's agent should be able to fill in a lot of that. Some people just want to fly, and I think it's wise to be aware of how much you might not know at the start. I will say to Jackk's point, owning does invariably drag you into a lot of nitty-gritty. 

I didn't realize the original plane was that plane. I remember some earlier discussion on it. 

You are definitely into Ovation territory at that price range, and a lot of Ovation owners love their planes. 

DK

[Jackk]

58 minutes ago, jordanschooler said:

If your point is that this requires a lot of effort and knowledge, it is well taken. But I would also argue that the ads only tell you what people are asking, not what they are getting. Some sale prices are highly negotiable and others not at all, and people familiar with aircraft purchasing will have a better sense for this than I would. And there is context such as that provided a few posts up that can be helpful. (In my defense, I did enough research to identify this one as an outlier.)

Thing is this is just step 1

If you delegate stuff instead of learning it you’re going to pay exponentially more for every step you make here, every annual, training, etc etc and you’ll be less knowledgeable in the machine you trust with your life 

I’d watch the market, ask questions on places like this (good job joining BTW) and ask around, make friends and networking, you’ll save boat loads and be better for it, plus if you enjoy aviation it’s actually quite fun 

 

 Folks bottom line you know as well as some broker, some people are “owners” not sellers, they have a stupid price and won’t budge, if you have had the success to be able to afford getting your PPL, not to mention buying a six figure plane, you’ll probably be able to tell after about 120 seconds on the phone.

 

 Don’t be on a hurry, more people want your money than their plane 90% of the time, and dont be afraid to say something like “I think your price is high, I do like your plane, can I call you in say a month and talk more about my offer”

 “Hey Bob, we talked a month ago about your plane, I take it it’s still for sale?  Can we talk about price now?”

 

 That one’s worked for me before

Edited November 19 by Jackk

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, jordanschooler said:

One question I have for people is whether this price is reasonable

I hope the seller gets the asking price, but regardless of the amount spent on paint, panel, engine, and interior, there is a limit to what can be recovered.  I suspect this J has exceeded that limit.

[hammdo]

Not to mention what insurance is willing to insure for too…

-Don

[jordanschooler]

36 minutes ago, Jackk said:

If you delegate stuff instead of learning it you’re going to pay exponentially more for every step you make here, every annual, training, etc etc and you’ll be less knowledgeable in the machine you trust with your life 

I totally agree, and this is part of why I want to buy. 

[201Mooniac]

7 minutes ago, hammdo said:

Not to mention what insurance is willing to insure for too…

-Don

I have a 1980 M20J which is equipped at least as well as that one with great paint and interior and I had to provide all the details and the estimated value from Jimmy's valuation guide to get them to go for $185K.

[Jeff Uphoff]

4 minutes ago, 201Mooniac said:

I have a 1980 M20J which is equipped at least as well as that one with great paint and interior and I had to provide all the details and the estimated value from Jimmy's valuation guide to get them to go for $185K.

Where can I find the latest copy of Jimmy's valuation guide? (Interested in Ovations, natch.)

--Up.

[Slick Nick]

That first one looks awesome, but the price is high. It’s got an an aftermarket belly panel with strakes on it. Wonder if it’s ever been geared up?

[201Mooniac]

9 minutes ago, Jeff Uphoff said:

Where can I find the latest copy of Jimmy's valuation guide? (Interested in Ovations, natch.)

--Up.

Jeff,  You should send Jimmy an email, I only requested the M20J guide so I can't send it to you.  Adam

[Jeff Uphoff]

1 hour ago, dkkim73 said:

You are definitely into Ovation territory at that price range, and a lot of Ovation owners love their planes. 

DK

Indeed! I have an Ovation that's 20 years newer, has 1000 fewer hours on the airframe, more modern electrical system, partial glass (Aspen), the 310 HP upgrade, good interior and paint, etc., and  I'm insured for basically the same value. In fact, if someone offered me this price for it, there's a good chance I'd say yes!

(I confess, I've been mulling back-country flying and tailwheels again....)

--Up.

[Yetti]

3 hours ago, jordanschooler said:

One question I have for people is whether this price is reasonable: https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/249270527/1979-mooney-m20j-piston-single-aircraft

Obviously it has a lot of upgrades and looks amazing. But I see multiple Ovations and Ks for less. Then again probably most who put so much into upgrades aren't selling quickly. 

Not to me.   Unless you really dig the paint job

This would be a nicer plane for $40K less.  Or $40K to fix things with, like the holes in the panel and paint to match the rest of the panel. but it has Air conditioning and a newer plane. Which usually means cleaner airframe.

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/247262119/1996-mooney-m20r-ovation-piston-single-aircraft

The semi weird thing with Ovation market is Jimmy/GMAX has kind of price fixed it.    Everything is going to be around $250K no matter how many hours it has been flown or condition.

The Ovation and the Eagle are just a nicer plane or as I like to say about the Eagle is it is 25 years old, but still 25 years newer than my F model.

The funny thing is I can fly the Eagle around at 140knots same as the F and still be at 11GPH.     

But the Ovation/Eagles climb better and go faster even when dialed back.    This was a 14.3 GPH lunch run with the lowly 244HP with 2 bladed prop. 

 

 

 

[cliffy]

RULE NUMBER 1 -- NEVER BUY THE FIRST AIRPLANE YOU LOOK AT- NEVER!

RULE NUMBER 2-- GET PROFESSIONAL HELP WITH A BUYERS AGENT

RULE NUMBER 3-- NEVER-- READ THAT AGAIN-- NEVER --BELIEVE ANYTHING TOLD TO YOU BY A SELLER OR HIS AGENT-- NEVER

CHECK EVERYTHING OUT YOURSELF OR IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE SUBJECT WELL GET SOMEONE WHO IS AN EXPERT

NOT EVERY A&P (NOT MANY A&PS) AR EXPERT ON MOONEYS

I HAVE JIMMY GARRISON ON SPEED DIAL FOR WHEN I GET READY TO SELL  YOU DON'T NEED ANYONE ELSE   GO SEE HIM AND AVOID GREIF

DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR?