M20Fan Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Same plane at same airport going the other direction. Looks somewhat better than the first post. Maybe a student?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobat95 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 yea that one is way better.....maybe a student.....guess I should not just jump to conclusions..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20Fan Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 The sound in the first vidio seemed all wrong to me. He was on the ground before he pulled the throttle out. Just didn't sound right. Had to be a student. Okay, now comment on the taxi and take-off of this Mooney in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N33GG Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Quote: aviatoreb A mechanical question for those in the know - I honestly don't know which is why I am asking - why don't you ever see a reverse thrusting prop on a piston engine? That wouldn't fix a porpoise - obviosly - it would only shorten the ground roll - this thread just reminded me that I have always wondered about this question. Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Quote: aerobat95 I like that one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneygirl Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 How many times have we seen Mooneys float down the runway? Why are pilots afraid to slow them down and fly by the numbers? I think that education with a Mooney-savvy CFI is the ticket. In the E or the R its 100/90/80/70-short final. [mph for the E, kts for the Ovation]. I think they are easy planes to land once you understand the power curve and address the speeds. I rotate on take off between 65-70 mph. When I practice slow flight it is at 80-85. What would make a person think they can land at a faster speed than she wants to fly? Floating floating floating, oh my Mooneys floating. Okay nuff said from me. Have a happy day everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Avalle Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Wow... really scary... Mooney speeds have to be managed VERY CAREFULLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N33GG Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Quote: aerobat95 yea that one is way better.....maybe a student.....guess I should not just jump to conclusions..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Avalle Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Many "maybes" but the reallity is that many times you don't get a second chance if you are not careful and fly by the numbers. So let us be careful out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N33GG Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Quote: mooneygirl How many times have we seen Mooneys float down the runway? Why are pilots afraid to slow them down and fly by the numbers? I think that education with a Mooney-savvy CFI is the ticket. In the E or the R its 100/90/80/70-short final. [mph for the E, kts for the Ovation]. I think they are easy planes to land once you understand the power curve and address the speeds. I rotate on take off between 65-70 mph. When I practice slow flight it is at 80-85. What would make a person think they can land at a faster speed than she wants to fly? Floating floating floating, oh my Mooneys floating. Okay nuff said from me. Have a happy day everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 He made two very big mistakes, only one of which he could control. First, he carried too much speed over the numbers and as with any Mooney we know how that works out. He could have fixed that on the second try for sure. Second, someone made a video of both attempts and exposed him to criticism. No way to fix that one. Pilots are notorious for living in glass houses and throwing stones. To quote the bible, let yea who has never had a bad landing cast the first stone. I have had my share and didn't need all the armchair pilots to tell me I wasn't slow enough, didn't keep the nose up enough on touchdown, didn't establish a stabilized approach, got distracted on short final by a passenger throwing up, runway was short and wide so flared too high, etc. Bad landings happen and hopefully we learn from them and get better. And no, that is not me in this video although I can think of some landings I would not want to see on youtube. And by the way, I have been in plenty of airliners with professional crews with thousands of hours and tons of training and they have made some awful landings. It happens...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N33GG Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Quote: ehscott He made two very big mistakes, only one of which he could control. First, he carried too much speed over the numbers and as with any Mooney we know how that works out. He could have fixed that on the second try for sure. Second, someone made a video of both attempts and exposed him to criticism. No way to fix that one. Pilots are notorious for living in glass houses and throwing stones. To quote the bible, let yea who has never had a bad landing cast the first stone. I have had my share and didn't need all the armchair pilots to tell me I wasn't slow enough, didn't keep the nose up enough on touchdown, didn't establish a stabilized approach, got distracted on short final by a passenger throwing up, runway was short and wide so flared too high, etc. Bad landings happen and hopefully we learn from them and get better. And no, that is not me in this video although I can think of some landings I would not want to see on youtube. And by the way, I have been in plenty of airliners with professional crews with thousands of hours and tons of training and they have made some awful landings. It happens...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 If the pilot of this airplane happens to be on MS, I certainly didn't post this for criticism or to embarass you. I just thought it had some educational value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_S Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 You know, while we're on the topic of less-than-perfect landings, let me open up to the group that lately I've had some real stinkers, and I seem to have gotten into a pattern that maybe somebody can break me of. When I first transitioned from the Warrior, my problem was that I was landing too flat...never nose-wheel first, but certainly three point landings. So I've consciously tried to keep the nose up higher to land mains first. Only now, when the mains touch down, often I'll get a sudden drop of the nose and a bit of a bounce on the front tire. Just one bounce, and never enough to suggest a go-around, but still...very unseemly. And at PDK, there's ALWAYS somebody watching you! So, perhaps I'm keeping the nose up too high? Or subconsciously releasing back pressure too early when the mains hit? I need to just go out and practice a few, surely, but I'm open to suggestions. I need to get that "greaser" feeling back in my hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I kept missing that "First" attempt only to see the bad second effort...Does everyone pull power to idle when they have the runway made or do some carry power over the numbers as this pilot did? I fly downwind and base at 100MPH. I am NOT going to slow down from this as it has served me well. That said I have absolutely zero trouble getting the plane slowed on final reducing to 80MPH on final then full flaps and over the fence at about 70, but not looking at airspeed...round out flare stall horn and land land on mains. The second landing after the first debacle and go around the plane appears to again come in with power into the round-out and then a little back pressure and ballon... Why carry power into the round-out and flare? I'm NOT looking for a critique of my speeds on downwind/base/final. I am curious why some fly slower downwind/base/turn to final? Do you feel you can't get the plane slowed down/stabilized? I know some use flaps on base and even downwind...again NOT Looking for a critique of my technique (not using flaps until on final)...as it works well for me...just wanting to understand better why you do what you do? Another link/discussion convinced me to always use flaps (90% full flaps) regardless of weight...maybe I will re-think my speed in pattern and use of flaps based on your reasoning of why you do what you do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Quote: Jeff_S You know, while we're on the topic of less-than-perfect landings, let me open up to the group that lately I've had some real stinkers, and I seem to have gotten into a pattern that maybe somebody can break me of. When I first transitioned from the Warrior, my problem was that I was landing too flat...never nose-wheel first, but certainly three point landings. So I've consciously tried to keep the nose up higher to land mains first. Only now, when the mains touch down, often I'll get a sudden drop of the nose and a bit of a bounce on the front tire. Just one bounce, and never enough to suggest a go-around, but still...very unseemly. And at PDK, there's ALWAYS somebody watching you! So, perhaps I'm keeping the nose up too high? Or subconsciously releasing back pressure too early when the mains hit? I need to just go out and practice a few, surely, but I'm open to suggestions. I need to get that "greaser" feeling back in my hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneygirl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I don't think that anyone is saying they haven't had a bad landing! I know I have had some stinkers. I used to be power off on short final. For me, and it is just me, I usually have a bit of power on. I fly the same speed in MPH in my E as Scott. I just find that a little power gives me some options for really squeaking it on. One of the areas that I have significantly improved on is not flaring too soon, and knowing when to give it a little power to slow descent rate. Scott I would say that about 75% of the time I have a tiny bit of power in at round out and flare, versus full stall landing. When I touch down usually 65 mph or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneygirl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Guess I clicked it twice. Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Quote: ehscott He made two very big mistakes, only one of which he could control. First, he carried too much speed over the numbers and as with any Mooney we know how that works out. He could have fixed that on the second try for sure. Second, someone made a video of both attempts and exposed him to criticism. No way to fix that one. Pilots are notorious for living in glass houses and throwing stones. To quote the bible, let yea who has never had a bad landing cast the first stone. I have had my share and didn't need all the armchair pilots to tell me I wasn't slow enough, didn't keep the nose up enough on touchdown, didn't establish a stabilized approach, got distracted on short final by a passenger throwing up, runway was short and wide so flared too high, etc. Bad landings happen and hopefully we learn from them and get better. And no, that is not me in this video although I can think of some landings I would not want to see on youtube. And by the way, I have been in plenty of airliners with professional crews with thousands of hours and tons of training and they have made some awful landings. It happens...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Quote: mooneygirl I don't think that anyone is saying they haven't had a bad landing! I know I have had some stinkers. I used to be power off on short final. For me, and it is just me, I usually have a bit of power on. I fly the same speed in MPH in my E as Scott. I just find that a little power gives me some options for really squeaking it on. One of the areas that I have significantly improved on is not flaring too soon, and knowing when to give it a little power to slow descent rate. Scott I would say that about 75% of the time I have a tiny bit of power in at round out and flare, versus full stall landing. When I touch down usually 65 mph or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Quote: Jeff_S You know, while we're on the topic of less-than-perfect landings, let me open up to the group that lately I've had some real stinkers, and I seem to have gotten into a pattern that maybe somebody can break me of. When I first transitioned from the Warrior, my problem was that I was landing too flat...never nose-wheel first, but certainly three point landings. So I've consciously tried to keep the nose up higher to land mains first. Only now, when the mains touch down, often I'll get a sudden drop of the nose and a bit of a bounce on the front tire. Just one bounce, and never enough to suggest a go-around, but still...very unseemly. And at PDK, there's ALWAYS somebody watching you! So, perhaps I'm keeping the nose up too high? Or subconsciously releasing back pressure too early when the mains hit? I need to just go out and practice a few, surely, but I'm open to suggestions. I need to get that "greaser" feeling back in my hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywarrior Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Quote: Jeff_S You know, while we're on the topic of less-than-perfect landings, let me open up to the group that lately I've had some real stinkers, and I seem to have gotten into a pattern that maybe somebody can break me of. When I first transitioned from the Warrior, my problem was that I was landing too flat...never nose-wheel first, but certainly three point landings. So I've consciously tried to keep the nose up higher to land mains first. Only now, when the mains touch down, often I'll get a sudden drop of the nose and a bit of a bounce on the front tire. Just one bounce, and never enough to suggest a go-around, but still...very unseemly. And at PDK, there's ALWAYS somebody watching you! So, perhaps I'm keeping the nose up too high? Or subconsciously releasing back pressure too early when the mains hit? I need to just go out and practice a few, surely, but I'm open to suggestions. I need to get that "greaser" feeling back in my hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Scott & co-- For a [long] while, my nose wheel would come down ~½ second after the mains; it just wouldn't stay in the air! With concentration, I was able to break the habit that had snuck up on me and now as the mains touch I apply more up yoke to hold the nose off longer. Still not like a 172, wheel up for 1000' or more, but it's better than it was. Also, I drop Takeoff flaps on downwind at 90 mph, then drop gear abeam landing point, hold 90 on base, leveling wings on final at 85, slowing down to 70-75 on short final depending on weight. I use pitch for speed and power for altitude, adding more flaps as needed to control descent angle, and pull the throttle completely closed when I either clear the trees at home or have an unobstructed field made. My normal touchdown point is the 2nd stripe past the numbers; home has 13 stripes. For some reason, when the winds are completely calm, I always land long, even with full flaps on final . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopePilot Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Those of you having issues with back pressure might want to considered adding a bit more nose up trim, and I mean just a little more, when you put down the flaps. I'm talking about just a smidge more than you think you need to counter the nose down action that occrurs when you add flaps. Even if it seems you have a touch more than you want (i.e. it requires you to add a touch of forward pressure against the yoke, just before flair), you will find that it will help you from setting the nose down. Caution: Too much nose up trim is also bad and will cause you to sink, float, etc. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Careful with trimming in the flare, it might cause a sudden pitch-up during a go-around. IDK if it applies to Mooney's or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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