M20R Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 I got a big shock today when I received information for my upcoming insurance renewal. The company I have been with for 14 years has decided that they will no longer insure Mooneys as the loss rate is too high. I did get two other quotes from other companies but they are more than double my current premium. This sucks! 2
EricJ Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 Weird. Mine went down a little bit this year. Not much, but it did go down.
Rick Junkin Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 37 minutes ago, M20R said: I got a big shock today when I received information for my upcoming insurance renewal. The company I have been with for 14 years has decided that they will no longer insure Mooneys as the loss rate is too high. I did get two other quotes from other companies but they are more than double my current premium. This sucks! What has changed in your aviation profile from last year? Old Republic, through @Parker_Woodruff, renewed mine 3 months ago at the same premium as last year. Did something happen in the industry this quarter?
Schllc Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 i don't believe it is an industry shift. it is more than likely one underwriter finding themselves having too many of one type on their books for the actuarial. my aerostar has the issue every year. i will get quotes from 11k to 60k for the same coverage. 1
201Mooniac Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 I just renewed mine today with USAIG, no issues and the increase seems very reasonable as I increased the hull value as well. I don't think this is an industry wide issue.
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 2 hours ago, M20R said: I got a big shock today when I received information for my upcoming insurance renewal. The company I have been with for 14 years has decided that they will no longer insure Mooneys as the loss rate is too high. I did get two other quotes from other companies but they are more than double my current premium. This sucks! W. Brown & Associates stopped underwriting Mooneys thru their online quoting platform that us agents use. They discontinued Flight Design aircraft at the same time. They will still review them manually for individual consideration, though quoting continued coverage is not guaranteed. I would see if your agent has asked W. Brown to manually review. 2
dkkim73 Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 7 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said: W. Brown & Associates stopped underwriting Mooneys thru their online quoting platform that us agents use. That's concerning. I switched to them last year as their quote was excellent compared to the others and their terms a bit more reasonable (not nickling and diming to add instructors, etc).
buddy Posted August 26 Report Posted August 26 I just renewed my aircraft insurance with D R Cox & Company (broker) and my insurance went up $1,800 this year. I’ve insured my 2005 M20R for the past several years with W. Brown and the only thing that’s changed is I’m a year older 73. I have approximately 6,400 hrs with commercial, instrument, single & multi land and have been flying Mooney’s for over 40 yrs. without an accident or incident. The carrier seemed to be responsible only requiring an IPC each year. After speaking with my broker I was informed that there are limited markets offering coverage for Mooney aircraft. Here’s a list of carriers that my broker received a response from: Aerospace - $2,000 higher than W. Brown Old Republic- declined Global Aerospace-declined Starr Aviation -declined USAIG - declined USSIC - pass Here’s the kicker a friend of mine has a 77 Beech A36 with approximately the same coverage and he’s a year older and less hrs and he just renewed his insurance for $2,000 less than me thru Global Aerospace.
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 26 Report Posted August 26 50 minutes ago, buddy said: I just renewed my aircraft insurance with D R Cox & Company (broker) and my insurance went up $1,800 this year. I’ve insured my 2005 M20R for the past several years with W. Brown and the only thing that’s changed is I’m a year older 73. I have approximately 6,400 hrs with commercial, instrument, single & multi land and have been flying Mooney’s for over 40 yrs. without an accident or incident. The carrier seemed to be responsible only requiring an IPC each year. After speaking with my broker I was informed that there are limited markets offering coverage for Mooney aircraft. Here’s a list of carriers that my broker received a response from: Aerospace - $2,000 higher than W. Brown Old Republic- declined Global Aerospace-declined Starr Aviation -declined USAIG - declined USSIC - pass Here’s the kicker a friend of mine has a 77 Beech A36 with approximately the same coverage and he’s a year older and less hrs and he just renewed his insurance for $2,000 less than me thru Global Aerospace. Most/all of these passes are certainly due to pilot age on a new business risk. Some of them would have written if they showed up in the 65-69 age range...maybe 70-72 in one or two cases. There are still many insurance companies writing Mooneys. 1
donkaye, MCFI Posted August 26 Report Posted August 26 With age being a concern, without being asked I provided very extensive documentation to USAIG, the company who has insured my aircraft for most of the past 33 years of ownership. I'm not sure if it helped but they renewed with a several hundred dollar increase over last year. Documentation included participation in the Wings Program (Basic 20, Advanced 14), Website showing Instructing for the MAPA Safety Foundation, number of years being a Master Instructor, Recipient of the FAA Master Pilot Award, Participation in the previous Wings Program for 15 years, Copy of 2nd Class Medical, and details of total time in all aircraft flown including all models of Mooneys along with details of all instruction given.
Greg_D Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 I've been shopping for an E model, so I got some insurance quotes. I'd heard to stay away from Avemco, but on another forum others were swearing by them, so I thought I'd give them a shot. $3850/yr for a hull value of $125K. I have an ATP and over 3,000 hours Mooney time. I laughed at the guy. And then he tried to tell me how much better Avemco was than the others.... 1
hammdo Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 I have Avemco, I participate in WINGS, get an annual flight review and complete WINGS phases, helps with my renewal. So far, they’ve been quite good… -Don
Greg_D Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 38 minutes ago, hammdo said: I have Avemco, I participate in WINGS, get an annual flight review and complete WINGS phases, helps with my renewal. So far, they’ve been quite good… -Don What are you paying? And what’s your experience and hull value?
hammdo Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 I have a C, 75k hull, ~$2500 last year. Renewal is coming up so I’ll be sending Avemco my WINGS records and sign-off on flight review. 775 hours and over 500 in a Mooney…
Paul Thomas Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 12 minutes ago, hammdo said: I have a C, 75k hull, ~$2500 last year. Renewal is coming up so I’ll be sending Avemco my WINGS records and sign-off on flight review. 775 hours and over 500 in a Mooney… You may want to call @Parker_Woodruff. I believe my initial policy last year with 400TT, and zero in type (Ovation/E wouldn't count toward the J but it's 5 hours or so anyhow) was $2,400. It was about the same this year.
PT20J Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 Insurance cost comparisons are meaningless unless you state the insured hull value and the liability limit including whether it is “smooth” or has a sublimit. 4
Fly Boomer Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 14 minutes ago, PT20J said: Insurance cost comparisons are meaningless unless you state the insured hull value and the liability limit including whether it is “smooth” or has a sublimit. And your age. 1
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 4 hours ago, Greg_D said: I've been shopping for an E model, so I got some insurance quotes. I'd heard to stay away from Avemco, but on another forum others were swearing by them, so I thought I'd give them a shot. $3850/yr for a hull value of $125K. I have an ATP and over 3,000 hours Mooney time. I laughed at the guy. And then he tried to tell me how much better Avemco was than the others.... Should be about $2000 at your pilot experience level. And about $1600-$1700 if that was a $125K M20K instead of a vintage Mooney. K model is the best deal going in short and mid bodies. 1
Greg_D Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 17 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said: Should be about $2000 at your pilot experience level. And about $1600-$1700 if that was a $125K M20K instead of a vintage Mooney. K model is the best deal going in short and mid bodies. Why are K models cheaper?
Rick Junkin Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 18 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said: K model is the best deal going in short and mid bodies. Parker, you’ve opened a can of worms! Which of the long bodies warrant the best rates?
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 Just now, Greg_D said: Why are K models cheaper? I have some theories. From my desk, the loss ratios are anecdotally exceptionally better than the earlier models...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 2 minutes ago, Rick Junkin said: Parker, you’ve opened a can of worms! Which of the long bodies warrant the best rates? All of them. But, the M20S probably has the best rates for non instrument rated pilots. The more expensive, the lower premium per dollar insured, too! So, please, let's start production of $800,000 Mooneys. It's for my children. 2 2
Echo Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 4 hours ago, Greg_D said: I've been shopping for an E model, so I got some insurance quotes. I'd heard to stay away from Avemco, but on another forum others were swearing by them, so I thought I'd give them a shot. $3850/yr for a hull value of $125K. I have an ATP and over 3,000 hours Mooney time. I laughed at the guy. And then he tried to tell me how much better Avemco was than the others.... I would of laughed at the guy as well. Worked for Chubb years ago. Affluent loved to have appraisal increase on property and could not wait for privilege to pay way more. Me? Not so much.
Greg_D Posted August 27 Report Posted August 27 54 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said: All of them. But, the M20S probably has the best rates for non instrument rated pilots. The more expensive, the lower premium per dollar insured, too! So, please, let's start production of $800,000 Mooneys. It's for my children. I don't doubt you, but this is the response I got when I asked my current broker why an E model was the same cost as an Ovation: "Aviation insurance premiums are a % of the hull value. With that, similar hull valued Mooney’s tend to have similar premiums."
Recommended Posts