Toronto CRJ inverted on landing

[toto]

Not much information available yet. Delta CRJ, sounds like everyone made it.

It hasn’t been a great year for the type 

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/478376

 

[Hank]

I'm shocked that there were 80 souls on board, the plane is laying on its back with one wing torn off at the root, and only 8 people were injured. To me, that seems exceedingly favorable! Certainly a bad day for all involved, but it easily could have been much, much worse.

[toto]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

I'm shocked that there were 80 souls on board, the plane is laying on its back with one wing torn off at the root, and only 8 people were injured. To me, that seems exceedingly favorable! Certainly a bad day for all involved, but it easily could have been much, much worse.

Definitely.

From anonymous internet comments, my understanding at this point is that one wing impacted (something) on landing rollout, which sheared the wing and caused the aircraft to flip.  It stopped rolling when the other wing impacted the ground, and came to a rapid stop.  Must have been terrifying for everyone on board.

[neilpilot]

A good landing is any landing you can walk away from?  

[aviatoreb]

48 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

A good landing is any landing you can walk away from?  

Im not sure I would call that a good landing in this case.

[aviatoreb]

Its a miracle that with a wing torn off that this didnt end up as a big fireball and al souls lost.

[Skates97]

Different video, looks like it lost the right wing almost immediately on touchdown. 

 

[Hank]

31 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Different video, looks like it lost the right wing almost immediately on touchdown. 

Wow! Touchdown, tip, wing break, fireball! There was no time for nothing.

Our local news said they had direct crosswinds gusting to 40 knots. I would divert well before then, but I'm not a Commercial Pilot being paid to go to a particular airport.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, neilpilot said:

A good landing is any landing you can walk away from?  

 

48 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Im not sure I would call that a good landing in this case.

A great landing is when you can reuse the airplane. So this one wasn't great, just good.

On the other hand, Richard's video above shows the pilot landed, then not much later the right wing came up and the left wing broke off . . . ruining a great landing in challenging conditions. 

[dkkim73]

Looking at that grainy video, it looked like a hard landing. 

Sounds like crazy cross winds. Thank God it wasn't worse for the passengers. 

On a more dad-joke note, I need to point out that it was technically, ultimately, a gear-up landing: 

 

 

[A64Pilot]

Hard landing, Ya think?

Good lord it looked to me like he was coming down like a rock even a little nose low and just never flared. It looked to me that the impact was so hard that may be what tore the wing off, it broke from overload. It was coming down so fast I’d say it was stalled but the nose was down, think maybe they got too slow up higher and the slight nose down was from trying to accelerate and break the impending stall but the ground got in the way?

Pure speculation, I have zero jet experience

Yeah if it was that bad the airport should have closed

Edited Tuesday at 01:03 PM by A64Pilot

[ohdub]

4 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Yeah if it was that bad the airport should have closed

The airport did close for several hours.

[ohdub]

There is a better video of the accident filmed from the cockpit of an aircraft holding short of the runway: 

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/18vxSo122g/

[EricJ]

I didn't see much of a flare.   May have just touched down too hard.

[Parker_Woodruff]

14 hours ago, Hank said:

I'm shocked that there were 80 souls on board, the plane is laying on its back with one wing torn off at the root, and only 8 people were injured. To me, that seems exceedingly favorable! Certainly a bad day for all involved, but it easily could have been much, much worse.

good thing that wing got left behind...

[LANCECASPER]

The danger with high gusts is that they may have had a lot of correction in on final and then either very little wind in ground effect in between gusts or another unexpected high gust. It's hard to maintain rudder control and power correctly on short final in those situations. Whatever the flight crew did that helped evacuate all of the passengers quickly is worthy of high praise!

[EricJ]

Another view for those with FB.   No significant flare is evident here, either:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/19uAvssXkE/

 

Edit:   I missed seeing ohdub's post above.   It's the same as this one.

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, ohdub said:

The airport did close for several hours.

Because of the accident though correct? I’m talking before

I’ll ask during fri morning coffee as we have too many senior airline drivers here but I do believe the Airline drivers are under pressure to deliver the pax to the scheduled airport just from cost incurred if they don’t.

I also believe that there is a belief that if the airports open, Wx may be bad but it’s doable, or they would close it.

So in my opinion the Airport does have some share of the blame if in fact the Wx conditions were the primary cause of the accident.

However having said that, to a man those senior airline drivers all are all saying that the quality of the new hires is the worst they have ever seen, some from DEI, but DEI according to them is worst in the cabin crew. The younger least experienced ones are who fly the Regionals I’m sure, it’s I think always been that way.

I’m going to make a prediction, I think we are going to be surprised at how inexperienced this crew actually was. 

But old men have been complaining for Centuries about the younger generation so who knows.

Edited Tuesday at 02:13 PM by A64Pilot

[A64Pilot]

15 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Another view for those with FB.   No significant flare is evident here, either:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/19uAvssXkE/

Yes, but the Facebook video doesn’t show as hard an impact that the grainy one seemed to, on this one it looks like it shouldn’t have failed the wing.

Aircraft does touch down right wheel first though and that’s the side that broke?

Think maybe something could be wrong with the Oleo strut? Blown, collapsed Oleo has no shock absorption?

[ohdub]

6 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Because of the accident though correct? I’m talking before

I’ll ask during fri morning coffee as we have too many senior airline drivers here but I do believe the Airline drivers are under pressure to deliver the pax to the scheduled airport just from cost incurred if they don’t.

I also believe that there is a belief that if the airports open, Wx may be bad but it’s doable, or they would close it.

So in my opinion the Airport does have some share of the blame if in fact the Wx conditions were the primary cause of the accident.

However having said that, to a man those senior airline drivers all are all saying that the quality of the new hires is the worst they have ever seen, some from DEI, but DEI according to them is worst in the cabin crew. The younger least experienced ones are who fly the Regionals I’m sure, it’s I think always been that way.

I’m going to make a prediction, I think we are going to be surprised at how inexperienced this crew actually was. 

But old men have been complaining for Centuries about the younger generation so who knows.

Yes, closed due to the accident. 

I believe the wind at the time was 270 27G35. They were landing Rwy 23 (237 magnetic - not numbered 24 because 24L/R at at the South end of the field).

[exM20K]

Not only did the fuselage not come apart during the event, it remained sufficiently in shape that the doors opened. 
if I have to unfasten a seatbelt while inverted, better a CRJ than a Dreamliner. FA’s did a great job evacuating.
-dan

[Slick Nick]

I operate into YYZ all the time. I was at the airport when the crash happened. The winds were a little gusty, but certainly nothing outside the limits for ATPL rated pilots, being almost straight down the runway. Before any approach on a commercial jet, you run performance numbers to determine your ref speed at your landing weight, for the given winds and runway surface conditions. From my Monday morning quarterback chair, it looks like the pilot flying did not flare properly for touchdown.

If the wind suddenly died off in the flare, your performance calculations take this into account so that the wing still has enough air going over it to fly safely (plus an additional margin for error.)

[Slick Nick]

49 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Because of the accident though correct? I’m talking before

I’ll ask during fri morning coffee as we have too many senior airline drivers here but I do believe the Airline drivers are under pressure to deliver the pax to the scheduled airport just from cost incurred if they don’t.

Who fed you that line of BS? There is absolutely ZERO pressure to do anything unsafe in a commercial jet airliner. Of course, as professional pilots, you want to “complete the mission” but never, ever by compromising safety to do so. Never once in my entire command experience, have I ever felt the slightest bit of pressure to do something unsafe, never mind because I might cost the airline some extra money. 

Airlines look at diversions and delays as a normal cost to doing business. They, like everyone, understand that it’s a lot cheaper to divert a flight than it is to settle lawsuits and cover a hull loss. 

[GeeBee]

Auto-thrust claims another victim.

 

[Pinecone]

11 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Im not sure I would call that a good landing in this case.

No, this is a good landing.

"A good landing is one you can walk away from.  A GREAT landing is one where you can reuse the airplane."

So it was a good one.