Proposed Modification to RSW Airspace

[Paul Thomas]

The FAA has proposed to modify the Class C Airspace at RSW. I think the biggest impact is going to be to those that typically transitioned above the C.

I'm not sure how quickly these type of changes happen, or how much modification there will be as they are forming a committee.

[Marc_B]

Opposing Bases podcast has mentioned changes like this several times in relation to busy Class C airports.  It would help ATC control the arrival and departure corridors.  Raleigh-Durham also had a proposed modification of RDU Class C airspace, along with several others I believe.  It makes sense for those busy Class C airports and is usually locally directed.

It's kinda a misnomer that we think of the Class C airspace just circling around the airport since the arrival and departure corridors are often times much larger.  Would be interesting to hear what the process is and the players involved for making a change like this happen?  (i.e. local ATC, FAA, process of amendment, etc)

[midlifeflyer]

I'm following the process at RDU. These changes can take several years. Like all airspace, it's regulatory. General description of the process is this. At the point you hear about it it's likely the beginning of the Ad Hoc Committee phase (unless you have missed a lot). You may have already received the invitation. 

If you want to get into the weeds, the full process is described in Order 7400.2R.

 

[midlifeflyer]

...there have been a number of these. Nashville's (BNA) so-called "Super Charlie" (still round but bigger). For an interesting one conforming to the other airspace in the area, there's Fort Lauderdale (FLL).

[Scott Ashton]

Boy a vfr corridor across the midfield of 6-24 would be great….

[Rick Junkin]

14 hours ago, Scott Ashton said:

Boy a vfr corridor across the midfield of 6-24 would be great….

It may be easier to get a Tango route established as a preferred IFR routing for transit, and then request to follow that same track VFR.

The Atlanta Bravo has a Tango route (T319) that also essentially provides a pathway for VFR traffic to transit the Bravo at midfield perpendicular to the runways. I haven't done it a lot, maybe 6 times, but I've never been denied VFR transit of the Bravo tracking along T319. I've always been above 6,000' so that may be a factor.

 

[mike_elliott]

14 hours ago, Scott Ashton said:

Boy a vfr corridor across the midfield of 6-24 would be great….

with a 6K ceiling, this would probably happen. I use the vfr corridor over tampa at 2.5K routinely going east, and have used the vfr corridor at ATL and PHX a few times. Controllers sure seem keed to allow it.

[Rick Junkin]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

with a 6K ceiling, this would probably happen. I use the vfr corridor over tampa at 2.5K routinely going east, and have used the vfr corridor at ATL and PHX a few times. Controllers sure seem keed to allow it.

Sorry for the thread creep. Where’s the ATL VFR corridor? I’m only familiar with the flyways.

[Paul Thomas]

I wonder if they would be willing to have a corridor. I've had great luck transitioning through their airspace but I've also heard them tell others "aircraft calling, stay out of the Charlie" too often. The 6,000 feet ceiling will be an obstacle for the Naples based pilots.

A committee is being formed. I don't know how much real input the committee will have vs. what ATC (FAA) wants, but Naples may want to be involved in the discussions. Last I had looked, ATC kept the airliners at 4,000 while going toward Fort Myers Beach, turned them between 4-2,000 over the water, and brought them back inbound for runway 6 at 2,000 till established. If they are going to keep something similar, a corridor should make everyone's life easier.

Edited January 29 by Paul Thomas

[N201MKTurbo]

If I recall, the VFR corridors across KPHX were established when it became a class B from a TCA. If not it was about the same time. I have probably used the corridors a few hundred times. I have never been denied access.

So there is a caveat. I was doing an operation rain check and some bozo had no idea what he was doing. they told him to leave the class B (and never come back).

So if you have the slightest idea how to fly and talk on the radio. they will let you in.

[N201MKTurbo]

18 hours ago, Scott Ashton said:

Boy a vfr corridor across the midfield of 6-24 would be great….

It works much better if you have two. Phoenix has two. One on the east end of the airport and one on the west end. They use one for northbound traffic and one for southbound. Usually north on the west, but I have gone both directions on both transitions.

Although they have defined entry and exit points, all they care about is you cross just beyond the numbers on the two ends and are generally going north and south.

And in true Arizona tradition both entry and exit points are golf courses.

[mike_elliott]

3 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

Sorry for the thread creep. Where’s the ATL VFR corridor? I’m only familiar with the flyways.

looking at a current sectional, it appears it is now t319. I have been sent over at 5K (maybe it was 5500) going to cobb county from the south a few times.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

looking at a current sectional, it appears it is now t319. I have been sent over at 5K (maybe it was 5500) going to cobb county from the south a few times.

Wow, you guys are great! I finally got cleared into the ATL Bravo flying on Christmas morning, but had the pleasure of "staying out of the Bravo" on my return flight several days later. So in 17 years, I have ONE clearance into the ATL Bravo, and LOTS of experience staying out both to the south and the north sides (usually crossing SW-NE).

Other Bravos typically let me in, it's just an ATL thing.

I hope you get a route or two down there in Florida!

[Schllc]

On 1/29/2025 at 1:19 PM, Paul Thomas said:

I wonder if they would be willing to have a corridor. I've had great luck transitioning through their airspace but I've also heard them tell others "aircraft calling, stay out of the Charlie" too often. The 6,000 feet ceiling will be an obstacle for the Naples based pilots.

A committee is being formed. I don't know how much real input the committee will have vs. what ATC (FAA) wants, but Naples may want to be involved in the discussions. Last I had looked, ATC kept the airliners at 4,000 while going toward Fort Myers Beach, turned them between 4-2,000 over the water, and brought them back inbound for runway 6 at 2,000 till established. If they are going to keep something similar, a corridor should make everyone's life easier.

It’s already an obstacle and the controllers there have a very unfriendly culture. 
if you go over ifr, they keep you inordinately high, direct you all over the place, and then slam dunk me for APF, it so bizarre it feels like they intentionally inconvenience you for sport.  15nm from your destination at 10k isn’t fun, especially when they tell you to descend and slow down at the same time.
If you fly vfr I have had them ask APF tower to have me call them after overflying, well over their airspace, and demand I contact them.  While I understand the courtesy of calling if I am 500’ over their airspace, why when I fly 2500 over, do they insist on talking?

what is the purpose of “airspace” if you can’t transition outside/over of it?