Pirep - Gee Bee Aeroproducts Baggage Door Seal

[Z W]

9 hours ago, Marc_B said:

@Z W  Couple of questions about install with the silicone cement...

 

I applied masking tape to the outside of the door to protect the paint, mixed up the glue that Guy sent, brushed it liberally on the door seal surface, put the seal in place using a few clamps, added some more blue masking tape over the seal to hold it, let it tack up, wiped away any excess glue, removed the clamps, and closed the door. Crawled inside and verified it looked good from that angle. You can see the seal from the inside on the lower part of the door. Came back the next day and removed all the tape. Seems to have worked OK. The seal hasn't moved. The glue is invisible once dried, I like how it looks a lot better than the old yellow stuff I had to strip off before this job.

I am not a professional and would recommend you follow Guy's instructions, which is what I'll do if I ever do it again. 

The same silicone glue Guy sends with the seal is available on Aircraft Spruce in case you need more. Comes with one of his cards in the package.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/siliconecatalyst05-13310.php

 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

We can extrude to sample, there is a min production run .

Just finished both extrusions for T34 canopy.

[MB65E]

5 minutes ago, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

We can extrude to sample, there is a min production run .

Just finished both extrusions for T34 canopy.

Let me get the exact dimensions. 
thanks!

-Matt

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

We stock chafe

.062 x 1 wide

.032 x 1" wide

.032 x 1-1/2 wide

.062 x 1-1/2 wide with Fiberglass used for Cessna cowl 

GB-P seal 

-5/8 Bulb

Cessna Caravan Cowl 

-5/8 LW Bulb

md500 cargo door

-7/8 bulb

Model 95 baffle seal

1-1/2 tail length 

 

[MB65E]

I’m showing .160 on the thickness.

Two different widths. 
 

.580 and .800

 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

Your thickness is not correct

 

We have silicone foam

.250

ams3195 sponge

We die cut it

I won't use or sell Epdm rubber 

[Andy95W]

On 1/6/2025 at 8:09 PM, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

Thats depends on the tolerance in the door .

Ref Beechcraft 

large gap, bulb on edge of door

close tolerance, bulb on inside edge 

I hope this helps you understand how the seal and tolerance fit together.

You can thin the Mooney seal by pulling it taunt during installation.

Question for Guy- @Gee Bee Aeroproducts-

How would I know which would apply to me?  The only thing I can tell about my current door seal is that in some places, it’s very tight but in others there’s a fairly big gap.  Is there a way to “trial fit” the seal so that I don’t glue it wrong?

Thanks!

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

44 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Question for Guy- @Gee Bee Aeroproducts-

How would I know which would apply to me?  The only thing I can tell about my current door seal is that in some places, it’s very tight but in others there’s a fairly big gap.  Is there a way to “trial fit” the seal so that I don’t glue it wrong?

Thanks!

Your thickness is not correct

 

We have silicone foam

.250

ams3195 sponge

We die cut it

I won't use or sell Epdm rubber 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

There is one seal I have for the Mooney 

original and silicone version
 

SHOWN

 

i have no idea of what you have installed 

 

 

 

[Marc_B]

Finished installing the GeeBee seals.  First off, after reading all the previous descriptions of issues with seals I was apprehensive...but in hind sight I think this was unfounded.  I installed the new profile (larger bulb, less durometer) on both baggage and main.

New GeeBee (left), Old GeeBee (middle), Mooney seal (right)

Cleaning off the old seals:  Baggage door seal looked different than the cabin door.  Baggage door was the foam core rubber seal, but the main door was dense crunchy foam seal.  Baggage door came off cleanly and way too easily, but the cabin door came off in chunks.  The money was to use plastic razor blade scrapers to scrape off the foam between the rivet heads and get down to adhesive.  This worked surprisingly well but was a little tedious in places.

Main

Baggage

I used cheap thin plastic drop cloths from Home Depot with some painters tape to mask things and keep any remover or parts off the paint and out of the aircraft.  It was an easy step that made clean up super easy! I took off the interior panels for both the doors.  I initially removed the hold open arm on the main door, but it really didn't open that much more and I think you could easily just leave it on and be fine.  But it makes it a little easier.  If you do take it off, be mindful of the washers and the cotter pin when removing.

Hold open arm parts:  Door Cotter pin AN380-2-2 (MS24665-132); Washer AN960-10; Washer AN960-10L

I then used white shop terry cloths (and a brass brush as needed) with a small spray bottle filled with Adhesive remover.  Given the fumes I'd recommend good ventilation and a respirator/glasses/gloves.  Depending on how thick and crusty your old adhesive is, dictates how much you need to use a brass brush.  Some have described using drill mounted brass brush, and I found that I could control the use of a brush easier without worrying about damage to the underlying frame by hand.  Being able to spray the adhesive and keep it wet as it softened the adhesive made it MUCH easier.  With softened adhesive sometimes using the corner of a terry cloth rag dipped in some adhesive remover pulled off the top layer of the glue and that coupled with a brush turned it into about an hour+ per door.  I think the 3M General Purpose Adhesive is less damaging to painted surfaces than other types of removers.  I think overall it worked well and I had no damage to paint or any surfaces inside or outside the aircraft...although I did mask with drop cloths very well.  Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

6-pack of cheap plastic drop cloths from HD

Plastic Razor Blade Scraper

3M 08984 Adhesive Remover

Small 2 oz spray bottle

Wood handled brass brush

After cleaning off the old adhesive, I used isopropyl alcohol to clean off the metal, cleaned up the drop cloths/area, and reassembled the hold open arm and reinstalled the door panels.

To prepare for door seal install the next day, I remasked using painters tape along the back edges of the doors to protect the paint from glue/from clamping.  I threw a clean moving blanket over the wing walk and wing around the main door to keep things off the paint and prevent paint drips on the wing.

QUICK ASIDE:  I debated using the 2-part silicone cement that GeeBee includes based on comments here on MooneySpace about something like 3M 08001 yellow "gorilla snot" that has "more working time"...THIS WAS COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED.  First off, you can't use rubber cement on a silicone seal...so don't even try to use 8001 on a GeeBee seal.  But I've used gorilla snot and it's stringy, messy, and goes on way thicker than you need.  I think the cement GeeBee includes is Momentive SilGrip PSA529 & SRC18 Silicone Contact Adhesive.  And a huge shout out to Guy as he has this packaged with mixing stick, measured bottles, a pipette for mixing small amounts, and even paint brushes to apply...its clear, just the right consistency to lightly apply just where you want it without running or dripping, and is SO much easier to use than 8001.  If you're apprehensive about using GeeBee's cement...don't be.  That's just silly.

BAGGAGE TIPS: For the baggage door you want to install so that the "tail" of the "P" seal goes on the raised part of the door ~right around the edge of the door panel.  You want to make sure you have enough exposed metal at the edge as there is a slight profile at the edge that will bind if you put the seal too close to the edge of the door.  Also, by putting the tail on the raised section, it allows you to easily and smoothly turn the corners.  The part closest to the hinge (top of the baggage door when closed) should be close to the raised section away from the hinge.  So basically on the baggage door it's easily to follow the tail along the raised part lined up with the edge of the interior panel.  Make sure you put your seam at the BOTTOM OF THE DOOR which is the higher part when you have the door open.

MAIN TIPS:  Get inside your aircraft and use a thin pencil stuck into the gap in front of the hold open arm.  You can use a pencil to make a mark along the bottom frame of the aircraft to see where the seal should go.  You can't quite get the entire bottom marked with a pencil, but you should be able to get enough to see the idea of where the radius of the door frame goes.  Along the sides and top you want to center the "P" bulb roughly on the rivet heads, however you want to make sure that when compressed that the seal doesn't flatten past the edge of the door frame.  Take a look at your door frame and it should be obvious where you want the bulb to hit the frame.  Really the only tricky point is really at the front lower corner due to the gap from the hold open arm.  If you followed the interior panel the seal would be in the gap and not sealing anything.  With a pencil mark you can aim to have the edge of the tail at the pencil line to make sure the bulb is contacting the frame.  Then once you turn the corner you can again align the bulb with the rivet line.

I mixed up the epoxy into a small "baby food" size container that I got a 4-pack from Target.  Take a small piece of seal to see where you need to apply the seal.  So use the paint brush and apply a THIN layer of adhesive on the frame where you're going to put your seal.  If you're doing both seals, then I'd suggest starting with the baggage door, then main.  So apply thin layer of adhesive to the frame of the baggage door, then apply to the main door.  You can use a hair dryer to "speed up" the drying.  What I'd suggest is apply glue to both, then only use hair dryer on the baggage door and the main will dry while you're applying the baggage seal.  Use isopropyl alcohol to clean the seal.  Then start at the BOTTOM of the door (high point when door open) and apply a thin layer of adhesive on the seal tail up to the bulb (just the part that will lay flat).  Use a hair dryer to dry until tacky.  Then place the seal TAIL inside / BULB to the outside.  Extra points to apply the seal end between rivet heads so that each end will glue to flat metal instead of right over a rivet.  If you're at a point where you can apply glue to the hanging seal you can apply to 10" of seal and dry.  But slowly apply the seal when the glue is tacky and press firmly to adhere.  I used small clips from Harbor freight (I bought 2 x 22 piece packs and it worked perfectly) to hold the seal as I moved along, but with the adhesive properly tacky the seal will hold itself.  When I ran out of clips, I'd harvest from the initial clips placed and move the clip train along the seal.  The adhesive is pressure sensitive so press the seal firmly and it will hold.  When you get back to seam, cut the end of the seal LONG.  Then slowly cut a little at a time until it  requires very slight compression to fit.  This will allow you to join the ends together with cement.

Then move to the main door and make sure the adhesive is tacky...if not, you can use the hair dryer, but I'll bet you'll take at least 20 min standard dry time to apply the baggage door seal.  Clean the seal with IPA.  I started on the bottom of  the main door and worked towards the hinge.  That allowed me to follow the pencil line and turn the corner.  Then it was smooth sailing to follow just inside the rivet line.  HINT: you don't want the center of the bulb closer to the edge of the door than the center of the rivet line.  Basically when the bulb is compressed, you don't want it extending past the edge of the door.  I think mine were actually centered on the inside edge of the rivet line.  On the main door with a moving blanket on the wing, its easy to keep the seal laying on the bulb and apply adhesive in a longer length of seal.  But still apply to the door in 3-5" increments and press firmly to adhere and then use the clips.

Once the seals are in place, go back though and make sure the seal is firmly pressed to the door after you've removed the clamps.  Then let cure with doors open for 12-18 hours.  The next day is the moment of truth.  If you closed the door prematurely, you could possibly glue more of the bulb seal down to the frame than you need.  I applied a thin layer of silicone lube/paste to the seal, wiped off the excess and then closed the door.  Firm, but not cumbersome.  Seals well all around.

If you need a new seal, I wouldn't hesitate to use the seal and kit from @Gee Bee Aeroproducts.  I was way more apprehensive about this than I should have been.  But give yourself a good 3 day stretch to make sure you have plenty of time to finish and take your time.  Day 1 clean off old seals, clean up and reassemble interior panels.  Day 2 to apply new seals.  Day 3 lube seal and close, then leave in the sun to fully dry and cure.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

I believe the Bulb on the baggage door is rotated inward vs along the edge of cabin door .

I have seen many original seals and placement of the bulb from used doors with Mooney part number on eBay .

What aftermarket seal/ installation is different than oem seal .

 

Note:

I suggest one coat of seal and let dry or use hairdryer.

Then wet seals in 3-5 inches increments and dry as you install.

I have a new employee and she installed all inspection panels seals after painting of both sides and a avionics bay panel that the oem wanted 3375.00 for a replacement seal and 90 days .

We duplicated the seal with a new die.

We die cut .025 thickness for various inspection panels .

Its all the same process 

 

[Marc_B]

9 minutes ago, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

I believe the Bulb on the baggage door is rotated inward vs along the edge of cabin door .

The baggage door seal needs to be place away from the edge.

So you apply the seal with the BULB out / TAIL inside.  But you need to place the tail following the raised profile so that essentially the tail of the seal ends at the edge of the trim panel.  This places the bulb essentially not extended much past the rivet line/riding the groove.  The tail rides the inside profile and this allows the seal to easily turn the corner smoothly as well.

You also want to hug the interior panel on the hinge side.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

Those are aftermarket seal shown.

 

left to right are the versions in silicone.

I was going to offer BST foam seal , same as we mfg for late Textron aircraft .

The mooney market will not pay the cost of this material extrusion.

 

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, Marc_B said:

Finished installing the GeeBee seals.

Fantastic write-up.  Thank you!

[Z W]

@Marc_B Thank you for the write-up. Looks like a very clean install.