Should I replace my switches?

[EricJ]

12 minutes ago, PT20J said:

So the answer is that opinions about switches and compasses vary and there will often be some confirmation bias in the answers. But I think it is good to know that there are options. I believe all wet compasses are filled with a refined kerosene (at least that's what it stinks like); if ethyl alcohol were used, pilots would drink it . Any compass installation should be swung with the engine running and the radios on and if you can compensate it, you're good. If you are worried about it, turn some avionics on and off when on the cardinal headings and see if there is a difference.

The Beavers I flew for two 135 float operators had compasses that were wildly off because the Beaver has a metal tube structure (everyone calls it a bird cage, which I guess makes the pilots birdmen) around the cockpit and it is difficult to deguass (at least according to the mechanics that didn't want to mess with it). It never bothered us -- we just just used a combination of GPS track and pilotage. Given my iPad for backup, I cannot imagine a situation where I would really need a compass anyway. It seems kind of like an appendix. McDonnel Douglas thought so little of it that in the DC-9/MD-80 they stuck it in the overhead behind the copilot viewable through fold-down mirrors on the glareshield.

A compass isn't even strictly required any more.   The reg says you need a "magnetic direction indicator", and an electronic one counts.    The Seminole that I did my multi rating in was brand-new and did not have a compass.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

A compass isn't even strictly required any more.   The reg says you need a "magnetic direction indicator", and an electronic one counts.    The Seminole that I did my multi rating in was brand-new and did not have a compass.

But where would I hang by fuzzy dice that keep the hula dancer on the glare shield company?

[Z W]

About a year ago my compass started reading 30 degrees off at all times and it was leaking even after a reseal kit.  I didn't care much, but the avionics shop did when it went in for some other work, and they replaced it, and then struggled to get it adjusted.  The steel tube above the glareshield it was mounted on had become magnetized.  They had to degauss it and also install a compensator kit.  He also said when running on just alternator #2 it still doesn't swing quite right but is now within tolerance.

I asked if the compass could just be removed and was told no because of the requirements of our G500TXi STC which requires another primary source of directional information.  So there it stays.  I'd like it out of the view as well but learned there's more to making a simple whisky compass work than I realized.

I asked about a dry vertical card compass and they said they don't like those, wouldn't sell me one, and wouldn't warranty it if I bought one and had them put it in.  According to them they are not reliable.  I haven't found the whisky compass to be all that reliable but didn't want to argue with the guy that installs and repairs this stuff for a living and keeps my panel working, so I let him put in the one he likes.

On the switches issue - I wish sometimes we had changed to toggles or modern rockers when we did the panel.  I'm very delicate with the factory switches and have one (the landing light) where the cover is loose and will even pop off occasionally.  The lettering is worn on some of them.  I could replace them but it's a hassle it would be nice not to have to deal with.  You have to track down the good folks on Mooneyspace making custom 3d-printed laser-etched replacements - you can't just order new ones from Aircraft Spruce.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Z W said:

I asked if the compass could just be removed and was told no because of the requirements of our G500TXi STC which requires another primary source of directional information.  So there it stays.  I'd like it out of the view as well but learned there's more to making a simple whisky compass work than I realized.

The "other source of directional information" can be electronic.    The Seminole I flew without a compass had a full G1000 suite, and also an Aspen as backup that had its own magnetometer.    I haven't looked at the G500Txi STC, but something like a backup G5 with its own magnetometer may qualify.

 

[PT20J]

G3X STC also requires retaining the compass.

[Pinecone]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:42 PM, Grant_Waite said:

For those who have done new panels, is back lighting the labels for the switches a thing? Like how bonanzas and a lot of bigger planes use electroluminescent lighting behind the panel, that’s controlled with a rheostat. I just think it looks cooler than having panel lighting under the glare shield or sticking out form the panel itself 

Anything CAN be done. The question is how much will it cost.

I would have loved back lit logos, but don't even want to think about the cost.

[Grant_Waite]

15 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Anything CAN be done. The question is how much will it cost.

I would have loved back lit logos, but don't even want to think about the cost.

Yeah, idk how much it’d cost but man it would look good. Under 2k maybe or more not sure for just fancy lights 

Edited September 23 by Grant_Waite

[Pinecone]

You would need an El strip and power supply for each row of switches.  And then to do a really nice job, do the panel slightly thicker to route out to flush mount the El strip and overlay.  Or cut a strip out of the panel and fabricate some sort of holder for the strip and overlay. with a backing to support it.

Looking, Aircraft Spruce has the strips for about $100 each and the power supply about the same.  It seems you can run up to 12 each 3 1/8" strips off a single power supply.  And they are dimmable with a single dimmer to the power supply.

My setup would require 6 or 7 strips.

BUT, the strips are not certified, so for experimental only or requires a field approval.

I will ask my avionics shop about a ball park to do it.  If it was under $2K, I might just do it.

 

[Will.iam]

On 9/22/2024 at 9:06 PM, PT20J said:

So the answer is that opinions about switches and compasses vary and there will often be some confirmation bias in the answers. But I think it is good to know that there are options. I believe all wet compasses are filled with a refined kerosene (at least that's what it stinks like); if ethyl alcohol were used, pilots would drink it . Any compass installation should be swung with the engine running and the radios on and if you can compensate it, you're good. If you are worried about it, turn some avionics on and off when on the cardinal headings and see if there is a difference.

The Beavers I flew for two 135 float operators had compasses that were wildly off because the Beaver has a metal tube structure (everyone calls it a bird cage, which I guess makes the pilots birdmen) around the cockpit and it is difficult to deguass (at least according to the mechanics that didn't want to mess with it). It never bothered us -- we just just used a combination of GPS track and pilotage. Given my iPad for backup, I cannot imagine a situation where I would really need a compass anyway. It seems kind of like an appendix. McDonnel Douglas thought so little of it that in the DC-9/MD-80 they stuck it in the overhead behind the copilot viewable through fold-down mirrors on the glareshield.

Actually by using a mirror to see the compass it now swings the right direction of your turn and was way easier to navigate with than a regular compass. If i could mount my compass up in the overhead and use a mirror i would in a second. 

[PT20J]

50 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Actually by using a mirror to see the compass it now swings the right direction of your turn and was way easier to navigate with than a regular compass. If i could mount my compass up in the overhead and use a mirror i would in a second. 

I believe they had two mirrors to make it appear as if it were mounted on the glare shield. 

[dkkim73]

Interesting discussion. 

I've had a beautiful mag compass in my office for a few years now, gift of my grandfather-in-law who was a WWII aircraft mechanic who later worked at Boeing and UW (a fine man). It's a horizontal-mount whiskey compass that seems very well-built and brisk to turn, better than most I've seen. 
I'd wondered about putting it in place of my plastic center-post-mounted compass in the Acclaim. A combination of backup and nostalgia (which isn't what it used to be ;). 

Any thoughts on process and documentation? I think the compass is "required". 

[DC_Brasil]

On 9/23/2024 at 11:40 AM, PT20J said:

G3X STC also requires retaining the compass.

Hello,

Can you tell me where I can find the full document? G3X STC for Mooneys?

Thanks!

[Pinecone]

From Garmin is you are a Garmin dealer.  Your Gamin dealer/installed will have a copy they might share.