This guy is an embarrassment to Mooney pilots.

[Brandt]

 

[toto]

The video just kind of ended during the VOR approach … is everyone safe and sound?

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, toto said:

The video just kind of ended during the VOR approach … is everyone safe and sound?

Yes he made it down.  And this is a duplicate post, there's more of a discussion at the end of this longer/older thread: Another Just sorry he was in a Mooney - can't fly IFR because iPad died

[toto]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

Yes he made it down.  And this is a duplicate post, there's more of a discussion at the end of this longer/older thread: Another Just sorry he was in a Mooney - can't fly IFR because iPad died

I’ve been following that thread, but this seemed like a very different flight - the controller in the other thread had commentary about discussing the use of an iPad with his supervisor and “we’re pretty sure that’s not legal” etc. 

This controller was a bit more chill, and offered the alternative of a VOR approach. Plus this one had the strange bingo fuel situation after confirming 90 minutes reserve. Idk

[Brandt]

2 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Yes he made it down.  And this is a duplicate post, there's more of a discussion at the end of this longer/older thread: Another Just sorry he was in a Mooney - can't fly IFR because iPad died

This is not a duplicate. 

[Joshua Blackh4t]

Look, he survived, so no criticism.

I hope I do better in that situation, or never get in that situation.

Top job by the controller. 

[Shadrach]

6 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Yes he made it down.  And this is a duplicate post, there's more of a discussion at the end of this longer/older thread: Another Just sorry he was in a Mooney - can't fly IFR because iPad died

Two different flights. This one terminated at KBDR the other thread was at KMRB.

[Schllc]

I feel sorry for the guy. It must have been terrifying flying in the soup, unable to stay level. 
I sure hope this experience caused him to reconsider his lack of currency and proficiency, as well as critical decision making.
Regardless of the legality of an iPad for navigation, how do you find yourself aloft with 10% battery and no way to charge, when you are obviously using it as a primary means of navigation?  
There appears to be a long thread of poor decisions.  Despite these he is alive and safe, and has an opportunity to do better now. Let’s hope he does. 

[toto]

10 minutes ago, Schllc said:

I feel sorry for the guy. It must have been terrifying flying in the soup, unable to stay level. 
I sure hope this experience caused him to reconsider his lack of currency and proficiency, as well as critical decision making.
Regardless of the legality of an iPad for navigation, how do you find yourself aloft with 10% battery and no way to charge, when you are obviously using it as a primary means of navigation?  
There appears to be a long thread of poor decisions.  Despite these he is alive and safe, and has an opportunity to do better now. Let’s hope he does. 

Absolutely.

The fuel situation was confusing. If he really had 90 minutes of fuel, my advice would have been to climb above the clouds and take five minutes to get his head straight and come up with a plan. Bouncing around in IMC when you’re seriously task saturated has a tendency to get worse and worse as fatigue sets in.

If he had five minutes of straight and level flight, he could retrieve an iPad charger from a bag, or figure out an ILS to fly, or something.

A VOR circling approach in the soup isn’t a great recipe for success with a non-proficient pilot. Finding VMC somewhere and flying to it - or at least finding high ceilings somewhere that would allow a visual approach after an IMC descent - is what I’d want for him. 

[Shadrach]

His wife is the one who was likely terrified. He seemed oddly calm for some one who could not set up his panel gps and had just unexpectedly run a tank dry.

[midlifeflyer]

"We have a couple of VORs. One of them has got to work."

I don't know if the registered owner of the airplane was flying but according to the FAA database, the owner is not instrument rated. In the video, the pilot says he's been rated for 10 years. 

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

"We have a couple of VORs. One of them has got to work."

Apparently, he did not do his 30-day VOR check, either.

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

3 hours ago, Schllc said:

There appears to be a long thread of poor decisions.

Aren't wrecks always?  He is lucky he did not make the one more that turned him into a wreck.

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, Schllc said:

Despite these he is alive and safe, and has an opportunity to do better now. Let’s hope he does. 

You are very kind and generous.

[PeteMc]

9 hours ago, toto said:

I’ve been following that thread, but this seemed like a very different flight

 

5 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Two different flights. This one terminated at KBDR the other thread was at KMRB.

 

No, the same video was posted on the end of the discussion about the original idiot.  So both are discussed in the same thread.

 

 

[EricJ]

There are at least four vids, two of each case.    There's also a vid or two of the guy that flew into the tower.

This latest case I didn't think was so bad, as the guy was communicating what was going on, and was taking instruction and assistance from ATC.    

[1980Mooney]

On 8/3/2024 at 8:29 AM, midlifeflyer said:

"We have a couple of VORs. One of them has got to work."

I don't know if the registered owner of the airplane was flying but according to the FAA database, the owner is not instrument rated. In the video, the pilot says he's been rated for 10 years. 

The Registered owner of N9525M is also listed as an A&P in the FAA Airman. The Registered owner was active on MS but stopped posting on MS during May 2023 and last visited MS in February of this year.  May not be him flying.

 Interestingly his ADS-B does not seem to show up on FlightAware or on ADSBExchange since March of this year.

Correction: That reference is to the current owner.  This happened in 2015 which was with a prior owner.

On 8/3/2024 at 12:46 PM, PeteMc said:

No, the same video was posted on the end of the discussion about the original idiot.  So both are discussed in the same thread.

 

On 8/3/2024 at 12:55 PM, EricJ said:

There are at least four vids, two of each case.    There's also a vid or two of the guy that flew into the tower.

This latest case I didn't think was so bad, as the guy was communicating what was going on, and was taking instruction and assistance from ATC.    

"ATC Live" YouTube Channel (video posted at beginning of topic ) scraped (basically copied) this flight/ATC coversation from The Flight Follower YouTube Channel.   Original is below. Unfortunately there is no date of flight in either post.

 

Edited August 13 by 1980Mooney
Correction: Happened in 2015 with prior owner

[takair]

Looks like the event posted in the video by the OP took place in 2015, so the registered owner may not be the current owner or pilot…..  
 

https://www.natca.org/2016/03/14/jeffrey-schuler-new-york-tracon/

 

[1980Mooney]

26 minutes ago, takair said:

Looks like the event posted in the video by the OP took place in 2015, so the registered owner may not be the current owner or pilot…..  
 

https://www.natca.org/2016/03/14/jeffrey-schuler-new-york-tracon/

 

WTF. That is two (2) owners ago. That owner (now 71 years old) sold it in 2019 and let his Medical expire in 2020. I am surprised that his wife, whom he acknowledged to ATC was on board, allowed him to continue flying a few years and didn’t make him immediately sell it in 2016. 

[FlyingDude]

On 8/3/2024 at 7:01 AM, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Look, he survived, so no criticism.

Nope nope nope.

It's one thing to have some misfortune, breakdowns, turn of lucks, etc.  One might have an unexpected lightning strike that fries all of the panel mounted electronics.  Was that really why he was only relying on an ipad?  I listened to the atc comms and he declared how one tank was dry even if it showed 1/4 full.  Is that what usually happens to everyone?

Of course it's easy to judge and condemn pilots while sitting in comfy chairs and sipping coffee, but if a VFR pilot gets into IMC due to lack of wx briefing (thus excluding sudden developments), or if someone wants to wing an IFR flight with an ipad only as the main device, sorry but a huge level of criticism is due and these people need to be either educated or just excluded from flying aircraft.  As for the other pilot who ended up on the power lines...  I recall from atc comms that he was 500' below minimums...  I personally know people who flunked IR check rides and IPCs both in Europe and US for going 20' below.  You cannot just not address this because "nobody died." 

Of course, if one encounters mishaps or bad luck, and things take a different turn than planned, of course, then you gotta do what you gotta do to land safely.  Other than that, we need some accountability.

[Joshua Blackh4t]

On 8/6/2024 at 2:05 AM, FlyingDude said:

Nope nope nope.

It's one thing to have some misfortune, breakdowns, turn of lucks, etc.  One might have an unexpected lightning strike that fries all of the panel mounted electronics.  Was that really why he was only relying on an ipad?  I listened to the atc comms and he declared how one tank was dry even if it showed 1/4 full.  Is that what usually happens to everyone?

Of course it's easy to judge and condemn pilots while sitting in comfy chairs and sipping coffee, but if a VFR pilot gets into IMC due to lack of wx briefing (thus excluding sudden developments), or if someone wants to wing an IFR flight with an ipad only as the main device, sorry but a huge level of criticism is due and these people need to be either educated or just excluded from flying aircraft.  As for the other pilot who ended up on the power lines...  I recall from atc comms that he was 500' below minimums...  I personally know people who flunked IR check rides and IPCs both in Europe and US for going 20' below.  You cannot just not address this because "nobody died." 

Of course, if one encounters mishaps or bad luck, and things take a different turn than planned, of course, then you gotta do what you gotta do to land safely.  Other than that, we need some accountability.

 

Nope to you too

Added up this all sounds terrible, but accidents are always a series of errors, generally ones that we all make. And staying alive means taking control and breaking the spiral.

Ok, so weather: we have all taken off without a briefing. And a lot of us have been caught with weather we didn't expect. Lots of vfr pilots have gotten caught in IMC. Especially when we think we are capable and going through that one little hazy cloud turns into solid white.

Navigation: he wasn't using the ipad as primary, he mentioned his main gps and turned it off because it wasn't helping him. Many people only use gps for direct to/basic and maybe it wasn't easy to use. He had the ipad for backup, but had forgotten to charge it. Ok, how many of our backups are not checked as much as we should? Also, maybe he was flying visual and didn't plan for needing any gps. 

Fuel: that one is pretty bad. I don't know, maybe he didn't dip the tanks? Maybe he wrote the left quantity on the right side, or forgot when he changed tanks. It's happened to us all. Just luckily not in unplanned IFR.

Actions: He admitted his mistakes. Yes, this means we can all ridicule him, but it meant he could get help from ATC and live. Admitting your mistakes and asking help is the hardest bit.

He kept calm and complied with ATC guidance. He kept himself and his wife alone.

So, to any student pilots reading this: we ALL make a lot of stupid mistakes. Sometimes they pile up and can kill you. It is ALWAYS better to get on the radio and say "I did everything wrong, I have no idea what I am doing" than to get into worse trouble because you are scared to admit your mistakes.

[FlyingDude]

1 hour ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

we have all taken off without a briefing

I haven't... Never have.

1 hour ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Navigation: he wasn't using the ipad as primary, he mentioned his main gps and turned it off because it wasn't helping him.

And.... What kind of bullshit is that? Does he not know how to use it? Did it break down in flight and become inop?

At some point he talks about "I got 2 VORs. One of them should work." WTF? 

Btw, I read here that he's a lawyer, so I think this was all self-exonerating banter.

1 hour ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Fuel: that one is pretty bad. I don't know, maybe he didn't dip the tanks?

That's a must! Totalizers make mistakes, fuel floats are inaccurate (that's why they're required to be accurate at empty only). If he failed to dip the tanks and did not keep track of time.... He needs remedial training.

I don't recall if he admitted to being IFR rated or not. At this point I won't waste more time rewatching the YouTube video. However if he ever accepted the clearance, that means he declared that him and the plane are rated and current (and proficient).

 

[Pinecone]

1 hour ago, FlyingDude said:

That's a must! Totalizers make mistakes, fuel floats are inaccurate (that's why they're required to be accurate at empty only). If he failed to dip the tanks and did not keep track of time....

Show me where the regs say that.

Hint, they don't.

[midlifeflyer]

22 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Show me where the regs say that.

Hint, they don't.

Yeah, the actual requirement reads in relevant part:

     23.1337(b) Fuel quantity indication. There must be a means to indicate to the flightcrew members the quantity of usable fuel in each tank during flight. An indicator calibrated in appropriate units and clearly marked to indicate those units must be used. In addition:
            (1) Each fuel quantity indicator must be calibrated to read "zero" during level flight when the quantity of fuel remaining in the tank is equal to the unusable fuel supply determined under § 23.959(a);

"Calibrated to read zero" when empty does not mean "only accurate at zero."

The weird part is that even the FAA fosters the "only accurate at zero" myth.

     "Aircraft certification rules require accuracy in fuel gauges only when they read 'empty.'”  - Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge

[FlyingDude]

thanks for sharing the regs.  So do you mean that the indicator must be accurate at all readings and show 0 at unusable fuel level?

@Pinecone @midlifeflyer How accurate are your fuel indicators?  Do they ever show 1/4 full at 0?  Ok, the regs require calibration at that point. Do they ever show 1/2 full at 1/4?  Do you read 0.28 at 1/4?  Or, since you are so precise, do you get 0.250000000?