Buffing our wet wings

[Huckster79]

So I just got my F back from getting both tanks stripped and resealed.  Starting on getting the paint good again, I would like to have it repainted but not for a few more years.  The paint was deeply dirty, more than a wash would remove.  We have Clay Barred it which helped tremendously, but still leaves some inconsistencies in the white.  I am currently getting ready to do a "Meguires #7 soak" its a method that an old single stage car paint guru swears by and makes sense, #7 has a lot of oils in it to "rehydrate" old single stage paint and the soak method allows the brittle paint to soak them up, some of the old school cars the guy has done are amazing- folks that do not want to repaint them but want them to look good.  But after the soak they still buff em out.  The test spot I did of the soak looks so much "healthier" and the inconsisencies disappeared, but it still lacks the deep shine I'd like.  But I'm hesitant to get the Dual Action Buffer out on it again.  Here is why and my question:

My bad leaks started after I buffed a wing last fall, with decent but not great results, but I didn't do as good of prep steps last fall as I'm now trying to do.  Now the sealant was old anyway, but part of me worries that direct kind of "high frequency" feeling vibration the buffer applies to the airframe may have helped that old sealant finish failing.  So I'm worried about running the DA buffer on my newly stripped and sealed wings.  I doubt it would make it leak right away again but might there be some credence in thinking that vibration right into the wing may not be good for the adhesion of the sealant?  Or am I out in left field with my worry?  I know their are vibrations from the engine throughout he airframe but the airframe doesn't vibrate when the plane is running in the same way it does when the DA buffer is on it.... 

Have other folks here Dual Action Buffed their wings?  Did you think it caused a problem or no?

[N201MKTurbo]

Just buff it by hand. You will look like Popeye when you are done.

[Huckster79]

7 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Just buff it by hand. You will look like Popeye when you are done.

Right, I probably could use that... Just thought if the buffer wouldn't hurt it, that I could get a deeper shine with a little power behind it, but I may just do that anyway.  Little Leary after last fall, and the two events may share no connection, but if there is, I would want to just hand buff... 

I wonder if a true rotary buffer would do less vibration than a dual action.  Obviously would need to avoid the rivets on back side of the wing but where it's all smooth seems like it may save some time.  I know they are a bit more "dangerous" but I've used one a time or two before and just went careful and I didn't screw anything up... hmm.  

[Fritz1]

If this is a complete strip reseal i.e. there is no old sealant left I would not worry about it, today's sealants are far superior to the stuff that was used when your airplane was built

[Huckster79]

54 minutes ago, Fritz1 said:

If this is a complete strip reseal i.e. there is no old sealant left I would not worry about it, today's sealants are far superior to the stuff that was used when your airplane was built

Yea it was the full 15k redo at Wetwingologist…  

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, Huckster79 said:

So I'm worried about running the DA buffer on my newly stripped and sealed wings.

Unless there were deficiencies in prep, mix, or application of the sealant inside the tanks (there weren't), you couldn't get that stuff to come loose with dynamite.  Buff away.

[M20F]

The only way to make single stage look great after it slips is to grind it down and buff it back.  At some point you run out of stuff to buff back.  

[Huckster79]

19 hours ago, M20F said:

The only way to make single stage look great after it slips is to grind it down and buff it back.  At some point you run out of stuff to buff back.  

Very True...

That's one reason I'm doing the Meguires 7 "Soak".  I found a single stage painted car guru on auto geek.  He shares a lot and is very well thought of in that community.  He says we all too often jump to aggressive strategies, often harming the paint more.  He offers a teqnique that he uses on old classics where the the person wants them restored not repainted.  He said the old single stage paint dries out and is brittle at a microscopic level.  The maguires 7 is a 100 year old formula for single stage paint with "trade secret" oils, no abrasives.  Instead of wiping on and wiping off, he applies a heavy coat and leaves it set for a day and then buffs it off with just Terry cloth, it gives the paint time to soak up the oils and "rehydrate".  He said this can be repeated 1-3 times, and once done if one wants to buff a bit the paint is in healthier condition to now do so and will need a less aggressive cut.

I've finished one soak on a sample area since the original post,  and it vastly improved its appearance.  I think before I do any buffing, now that the sample spot seemed to work,  I'm going to try it once or twice more, and if that brings it to an acceptable level of shine then I'm not even going to worry about the buffing with a machine.  If it doesn't I may lightly hit it.  But with what I'm seeing even from the first sample now, if soak 2 and 3 improves it more, I'm just going do do that, as the soak will be far easier than buffing around rivets and leading edges, etc.... I can't see my reflection in it, but it's no longer chalky feeling.   It will still need a coat of something to protect it as the #7 doesn't have any long term protection for the paint.  

[WilliamR]

First, I think you buffing a wing tank leakage was a coincidence and not causational based on my experience. I probably buffed my plane over the last 20 years 5-7 times. Noticed no tank leakage after buffing. I also buffed other Mooneys over my almost 40 year flying career (I started detailing airplanes at 14 at my family's maintenance shop) with no notice of creating leaks.

I think your plan of one or two more goes then a very light buffing if needed is spot on and you're clearly knowledgeable enough to know that protection after using #7 is needed. As you've discovered, old single stage paint is very soft compared to a modern paint job. Tread lightly as you've noted.

Protection is the harder question. Do you go old school wax or do you ceramic or do you do ceramic wax which is closer to wax than a true ceramic coating? Obvi, you would not want to use a panel wipe if doing ceramic coating as that will undo most of the oil penetration you just did. I've seen some barn find Porsches do paint correction that just apply the ceramic over corrected paint (look at Ammo NYC, they've done some single stage paint work).

Interested in before/after pics.

William

 

[Pinecone]

1 hour ago, Huckster79 said:

Very True...

That's one reason I'm doing the Meguires 7 "Soak".  I found a single stage painted car guru on auto geek.  He shares a lot and is very well thought of in that community.  He says we all too often jump to aggressive strategies, often harming the paint more.  He offers a teqnique that he uses on old classics where the the person wants them restored not repainted.  He said the old single stage paint dries out and is brittle at a microscopic level.  The maguires 7 is a 100 year old formula for single stage paint with "trade secret" oils, no abrasives.  Instead of wiping on and wiping off, he applies a heavy coat and leaves it set for a day and then buffs it off with just Terry cloth, it gives the paint time to soak up the oils and "rehydrate".  He said this can be repeated 1-3 times, and once done if one wants to buff a bit the paint is in healthier condition to now do so and will need a less aggressive cut.

I've finished one soak on a sample area since the original post,  and it vastly improved its appearance.  I think before I do any buffing, now that the sample spot seemed to work,  I'm going to try it once or twice more, and if that brings it to an acceptable level of shine then I'm not even going to worry about the buffing with a machine.  If it doesn't I may lightly hit it.  But with what I'm seeing even from the first sample now, if soak 2 and 3 improves it more, I'm just going do do that, as the soak will be far easier than buffing around rivets and leading edges, etc.... I can't see my reflection in it, but it's no longer chalky feeling.   It will still need a coat of something to protect it as the #7 doesn't have any long term protection for the paint.  

The problem is, what paint was used.  If you are talking a classic car, it was lacquer or enamel, and restoring oils may work.

Modern planes (and cars) are painted with catalyzed paints that cross link and are a whole different animal.

[M20F]

5 hours ago, Huckster79 said:

Very True...

That's one reason I'm doing the Meguires 7 "Soak".  I found a single stage painted car guru on auto geek.  He shares a lot and is very well thought of in that community.  He says we all too often jump to aggressive strategies, often harming the paint more.  He offers a teqnique that he uses on old classics where the the person wants them restored not repainted.  He said the old single stage paint dries out and is brittle at a microscopic level.  The maguires 7 is a 100 year old formula for single stage paint with "trade secret" oils, no abrasives.  Instead of wiping on and wiping off, he applies a heavy coat and leaves it set for a day and then buffs it off with just Terry cloth, it gives the paint time to soak up the oils and "rehydrate".  He said this can be repeated 1-3 times, and once done if one wants to buff a bit the paint is in healthier condition to now do so and will need a less aggressive cut.

I've finished one soak on a sample area since the original post,  and it vastly improved its appearance.  I think before I do any buffing, now that the sample spot seemed to work,  I'm going to try it once or twice more, and if that brings it to an acceptable level of shine then I'm not even going to worry about the buffing with a machine.  If it doesn't I may lightly hit it.  But with what I'm seeing even from the first sample now, if soak 2 and 3 improves it more, I'm just going do do that, as the soak will be far easier than buffing around rivets and leading edges, etc.... I can't see my reflection in it, but it's no longer chalky feeling.   It will still need a coat of something to protect it as the #7 doesn't have any long term protection for the paint.  

There's the young faith healer, he's a woman stealer
He will cure by his command
When the music's hot then you might have to stand
To hear the Klondike Klu Klux Steamboat Band
Don't you sweat it, you can't forget it
W.S. Walcott medicine show

[Huckster79]

5 hours ago, WilliamR said:

First, I think you buffing a wing tank leakage was a coincidence and not causational based on my experience. I probably buffed my plane over the last 20 years 5-7 times. Noticed no tank leakage after buffing. I also buffed other Mooneys over my almost 40 year flying career (I started detailing airplanes at 14 at my family's maintenance shop) with no notice of creating leaks.

I think your plan of one or two more goes then a very light buffing if needed is spot on and you're clearly knowledgeable enough to know that protection after using #7 is needed. As you've discovered, old single stage paint is very soft compared to a modern paint job. Tread lightly as you've noted.

Protection is the harder question. Do you go old school wax or do you ceramic or do you do ceramic wax which is closer to wax than a true ceramic coating? Obvi, you would not want to use a panel wipe if doing ceramic coating as that will undo most of the oil penetration you just did. I've seen some barn find Porsches do paint correction that just apply the ceramic over corrected paint (look at Ammo NYC, they've done some single stage paint work).

Interested in before/after pics.

William

 

I think I’m going for the light duty Adams advanced ceramic spray.  I’ve gone back n forth more than a vfr weather prediction… 

the pricey stuff, I’m worried what if I don’t like it… the spray on is a more diluted same chemical.  I talked to the company and they said it takes only a light hand polish to remove the spray on, the real stuff they sell in tiny bottles likely needs a machine buff to remove….

ill try to post some progress pics, its not done but the wings at least don’t look like blotchy cream white they are now looking like lightly blotchy white.

i really want to redo my striping but will prob put that off a year w the hassle of needing to rebalance all the surfaces. 

[Kelpro999]

 If you’re a few years from a complete paint, you could always do a sand and shoot on the top side only with a 2k single stage. Not anywhere near labor intensive and still provides a smooth easy clean uniform color surface.

[Huckster79]

On 7/25/2024 at 5:56 PM, Kelpro999 said:

 If you’re a few years from a complete paint, you could always do a sand and shoot on the top side only with a 2k single stage. Not anywhere near labor intensive and still provides a smooth easy clean uniform color surface.

That’s not a bad idea if the soak doesn’t make me happy… 

[Huckster79]

The first one shows the deep dinge that’s in the paint from m cleaning that one spot.  the other photos actually make it look better than in person. 

so these are befores, I’ll share some after once I get some progress.  I think I’m going to do one area start to finish before moving on- like left wing, right wing, fuselage, etc. 

[Kelpro999]

17 hours ago, Huckster79 said:

The first one shows the deep dinge that’s in the paint from m cleaning that one spot

 The image doesn’t look too bad. Another option is scrub with gray scotch-brite & di water then spray 2k clear. If you’re in a hanger it’s probably not as important having a closed uv & moisture resistant surface. Mine was way worse than yours, so much so I couldn’t keep dirt and moisture out of it no matter how much elbow grease I spread on it. It’d be good for a few weeks at a time but tied outside takes its toll.