Insurance Hull Value

[Becca]

As y’all know we have an 1977 M20J with modern avionics, new paint, and a 500 hr engine, it will soon have a brand new interior.

Insurance companies are capping our hull value at $189k (for the insurance company with smooth limits) to $195k (the insurance company without smooth limits). Any higher hull value is doubling our premium (from $3k to $6k).  

I just cannot fathom being able to replace my plane for even $200k in the current sales environment.  I think I’ll get “good enough” for $200 and then actually have to put more in to get where I am now.

I am concerned my insurance company will be incentivized to total my plane because they will be able to sell it off at salvage for more than the insured value. 

Are you all seeing this with your hull values? Anything I can do?  I’m afraid our only option is going to be to just go underinsured and keep our fingers crossed…

[PT20J]

I have a 1994 M20J with Garmin G3X panel, 500 hour factory rebuilt engine, 1650 TT, original paint and interior (I did replace carpets and repair/paint the plastic). My carrier is USAIG. I've got about 5,700 TT and 1,300 MM. I didn't have any problem getting $250,000 hull and $1,000,000 smooth. $250K is about what I've got in it and pretty close to what the updated Vref came up with. Cost was $3,443 hull and $663 liability ($4,106 total). I'm the only named pilot.

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[Schllc]

1 hour ago, Becca said:

As y’all know we have an 1977 M20J with modern avionics, new paint, and a 500 hr engine, it will soon have a brand new interior.

Insurance companies are capping our hull value at $189k (for the insurance company with smooth limits) to $195k (the insurance company without smooth limits). Any higher hull value is doubling our premium (from $3k to $6k).  

I just cannot fathom being able to replace my plane for even $200k in the current sales environment.  I think I’ll get “good enough” for $200 and then actually have to put more in to get where I am now.

I am concerned my insurance company will be incentivized to total my plane because they will be able to sell it off at salvage for more than the insured value. 

Are you all seeing this with your hull values? Anything I can do?  I’m afraid our only option is going to be to just go underinsured and keep our fingers crossed…

You should know the aviation insurance market is somewhat convoluted. 
all agents can’t quote all carriers and once one agent quotes you, no other agent can get quotes from those carriers. It’s kinda messed up, and I don’t know if it’s by design, or just a function of a small market. Call around to other brokers.  

[Hank]

@Becca, did you check with @Parker_Woodruff?

[toto]

Eek, I haven't run a vRef in a long time.  If this is even remotely close to a correct value, I'm way underinsured. 

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, Schllc said:

You should know the aviation insurance market is somewhat convoluted. 
all agents can’t quote all carriers and once one agent quotes you, no other agent can get quotes from those carriers. It’s kinda messed up, and I don’t know if it’s by design, or just a function of a small market. Call around to other brokers.  

Oh, I'd bet it's by design.  And, for sure it's pretty standard in the biz world; not just 'small markets.'

You have to submit a new 'broker of record' letter that the new guy can show to the carrier.  Of course, that fires your existing broker...and no way to get yet another quote as you would have to 'fire' the new broker with another letter.  And, I suspect the carriers would catch on by then

It's in the best interest of both carriers and brokers to 'keep you captive.'

[Schllc]

10 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

It's in the best interest of both carriers and brokers to 'keep you captive.'

You cannot possibly be as cynical about insurance as I am…

I was trying to be nice….

[Parker_Woodruff]

15 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Oh, I'd bet it's by design.  And, for sure it's pretty standard in the biz world; not just 'small markets.'

You have to submit a new 'broker of record' letter that the new guy can show to the carrier.  Of course, that fires your existing broker...and no way to get yet another quote as you would have to 'fire' the new broker with another letter.  And, I suspect the carriers would catch on by then

It's in the best interest of both carriers and brokers to 'keep you captive.'

A lot of light aircraft insurers no longer "block" for personal use aircraft once a broker approaches them for a quote now that their quoting systems are more automated.

[201Mooniac]

20 hours ago, toto said:

Eek, I haven't run a vRef in a long time.  If this is even remotely close to a correct value, I'm way underinsured. 

+1, I was thinking the same thing.  I'll have to see what it shows.  Given all the retrofitting that older aircraft have gone through yielding each being unique, it seems it would be hard for these systems to do a good job giving a realistic estimate.

[PT20J]

Vref added a lot more detail to customize quotes recently. But, I have no idea how accurate it is. 

[Pinecone]

VREF was close to what I paid for my plane.

But one thing I did was put in 5 years old for all the avionics.  They use a model of 100% the first year to 0 at 10 years old.  But the values don't track that way.