Pre-Buy M20C in Placerville, CA

[Fly.guy.guidry]

Hello all,

 

Midwesterner trying to buy his first plane. 
Found a M20C in placerville, CA and trying to find someone local who could help with a pre-buy inspection. 
 

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. 
Thank you in advance 

[C.J.]

@Fly.guy.guidry 

Top Gun is in Stockton, CA which is very close by.        Home (topgunaviation.net)

Welcome to MooneySpace.

 

[katzhome]

I agree with @C.J., Top Gun is often busy, but did a very good job on my pre-buy in 2022 for my J.  It is only about 50nmi away in a straight shot to fly to Stockton from Placerville as well.

[Fly.guy.guidry]

@C.J. & @katzhome thank you all for the insight, I’ll give them a call and see! 

[Fly.guy.guidry]

@C.J., @katzhome Any body else yall would recommend. 
Top Gun is booked up until January. 

[C.J.]

  On 10/16/2023 at 11:25 PM, Fly.guy.guidry said:

@C.J., @katzhome Any body else yall would recommend. 
Top Gun is booked up until January. 

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Sorry, really wish I could help you. The market seems kind of slow IMO so it's possible the C & E that Skywagon currently have might still be available in January. I remember 2669W being available for at least the last year on TAP or some other website. Best of luck in your search.

[katzhome]

  On 10/16/2023 at 11:25 PM, Fly.guy.guidry said:

@C.J., @katzhome Any body else yall would recommend. 
Top Gun is booked up until January. 

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Yikes!  Even more backed up than when I did it last year.

Per @MooneyMitch in this thread below, it is more SoCal focused, but had some good options.

 

Prebuy Shop Needed in Southern California

Coastal Valley Aviation, SMX, are quite knowledgeable on Mooneys.  
Several Mooneys on our field currently use, and have used CVA over the past 20 years or so.  D,C,E,F, J, R,S,M models included.

I’ve used them on many occasions.  Quality work, with a trustworthy reputation, at fair prices.  

I should add that @kortopates had some opinions and possibly some other options he references at the end of the thread.

 

Good luck!

[Fly.guy.guidry]

  On 10/17/2023 at 12:09 AM, C.J. said:

Sorry, really wish I could help you. The market seems kind of slow IMO so it's possible the C & E that Skywagon currently have might still be available in January. I remember 2669W being available for at least the last year on TAP or some other website. Best of luck in your search.

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No worries, thank you.
Yeah it might just come down to waiting - not looking to force or rush anything.

[Fly.guy.guidry]

  On 10/17/2023 at 12:15 AM, katzhome said:

Yikes!  Even more backed up than when I did it last year.

Per @MooneyMitch in this thread below, it is more SoCal focused, but had some good options.

 

Prebuy Shop Needed in Southern California

Coastal Valley Aviation, SMX, are quite knowledgeable on Mooneys.  
Several Mooneys on our field currently use, and have used CVA over the past 20 years or so.  D,C,E,F, J, R,S,M models included.

I’ve used them on many occasions.  Quality work, with a trustworthy reputation, at fair prices.  

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Good looking out - it's worth a shot.

Thank you! 

[RobertGary1]

I’m just down the road from Placerville. I can’t think of another place I’d trust aside from top gun. Plus if you choose to have some repairs done they’re the right shop to do them 

[201Mooniac]

Since Lasar moved out, there really isn't anyone else in the area I could recommend.  IMO, it is best to have someone very familiar with the airframe do the inspection.

[Fly.guy.guidry]

  On 10/17/2023 at 5:56 AM, RobertGary1 said:

I’m just down the road from Placerville. I can’t think of another place I’d trust aside from top gun. Plus if you choose to have some repairs done they’re the right shop to do them 

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We shall see what we can make happen. 
heard back from Expert Aircraft Solutions which I’ve seen on threads here. 

[Fly.guy.guidry]

  On 10/17/2023 at 1:46 PM, 201Mooniac said:

Since Lasar moved out, there really isn't anyone else in the area I could recommend.  IMO, it is best to have someone very familiar with the airframe do the inspection.

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Thank you. 
yeah it’s slim pickings. 
expert aircraft solutions has been maybe the only one who’s seems to have availability. 

[M Terry]

Andy at the air frame company in Woodland (a very short hop from Placerville)  cleaned up the mess that Lasar left behind when they bugged out of California. He is an expert on Mooneys and I think he does pre-buys. Highly recommended.

andy@airframe.company

 

 

 

[Fly Boomer]

  On 10/17/2023 at 8:12 PM, M Terry said:

Andy at the air frame company in Woodland (a very short hop from Placerville)  cleaned up the mess that Lasar left behind when they bugged out of California. He is an expert on Mooneys and I think he does pre-buys. Highly recommended.

andy@airframe.company

 

 

 

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Is $200/hour typical for California?

[larryb]

If you haven't already done this already, you can do a lot of the prebuy inspection yourself. Only when it passes this first DIY inspection do you need to find a shop for further inspection.  You don't have to be a maintenance pro to spot things that are not as they should be.

1. Read every page of every logbook.
2. Have owner/dealer de-cowl the engine.
   1. Look for oil leaks.
   2. Look for blue stain indication fuel leaks.
   3. Look for tan dust indicating exhaust leaks.
   4. Look for worn scat tubes.
   5. Look for missing screws/bolts.
   6. Condition of the baffling.
3. Open a few inspection plates and look inside for corrosion.
4. Carefully inspect wheel wells with flashlight for corrosion. 
5. Look for fuel leaks, blue staining.
6. Check tires and brakes.
7. Look behind the panel, neat or sloppy?

Finally, pre-buy the seller. What kind of person do they seem? Did you find things in your DIY inspection that were not disclosed? How did the seller react? Do you feel they are trustworthy?

[Fly.guy.guidry]

  On 10/17/2023 at 9:30 PM, larryb said:

If you haven't already done this already, you can do a lot of the prebuy inspection yourself. Only when it passes this first DIY inspection do you need to find a shop for further inspection.  You don't have to be a maintenance pro to spot things that are not as they should be.

1. Read every page of every logbook.
2. Have owner/dealer de-cowl the engine.
   1. Look for oil leaks.
   2. Look for blue stain indication fuel leaks.
   3. Look for tan dust indicating exhaust leaks.
   4. Look for worn scat tubes.
   5. Look for missing screws/bolts.
   6. Condition of the baffling.
3. Open a few inspection plates and look inside for corrosion.
4. Carefully inspect wheel wells with flashlight for corrosion. 
5. Look for fuel leaks, blue staining.
6. Check tires and brakes.
7. Look behind the panel, neat or sloppy?

Finally, pre-buy the seller. What kind of person do they seem? Did you find things in your DIY inspection that were not disclosed? How did the seller react? Do you feel they are trustworthy?

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Very good insight, thank you.

[Mooney1971]

Have you considered United Flight Services in Watsonville? Terry the owner is lovely to work with, owns one or two Mooney’s, and has been taking care of my M20F since I moved to California. Very happy and I know other Mooney owners are also happy. 

[201Mooniac]

  On 10/17/2023 at 9:08 PM, Fly Boomer said:

Is $200/hour typical for California?

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Top Gun's current rate is $155/hour.

[Fly Boomer]

  On 10/18/2023 at 3:44 AM, 201Mooniac said:

Top Gun's current rate is $155/hour.

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I have not been there but, at least by reputation, Top Gun is as good as it gets for the western U.S. so that rate seems about right.  Based on his price sheet, it looks like Andy is trying to establish himself as the price leader.  Actually, I'm in favor of these guys getting paid more, but a 30% jump above the rate for Top Gun seems excessive.  Market forces will prevail.

[Bolter]

  On 10/17/2023 at 9:08 PM, Fly Boomer said:

Is $200/hour typical for California?

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I would expect that a pre-buy is a fixed price, or so that is my experience.  It is a fixed set of inspection steps, plus documentation.  There are no repairs or parts that keep things open-ended.  

-dan

[Fly Boomer]

  On 10/18/2023 at 12:58 PM, Bolter said:

I would expect that a pre-buy is a fixed price, or so that is my experience.  It is a fixed set of inspection steps, plus documentation.  There are no repairs or parts that keep things open-ended.  

-dan

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Andy's price sheet provides both hours and price, so I got the rate by dividing.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I would gladly pay someone 200 an hour for a well done prebuy.   I paid a guy 1800 for a prebuy that was nearly worthless.  He could have spent 180 hours  or 10 dollars an hour doing it and it still would have been a terrible value. 
 

Until you have experience with a mechanic you don’t know what their work product is worth.  
 

Personally I would never pay for a generic prebuy again and I would never pay someone for one without me being there to observe it and assist.  I would have a specific list of items for them to accomplish and I would pay them by the hour.  What I would want them to do on a Mooney would probably take maybe 3 hours with me assisting.  

[RescueMunchkin]

What's everyone's opinion of skywagons? They have a pretty bad review on Google, which turned me off to them when I was shopping.

[47U]

  On 11/23/2023 at 4:46 PM, RescueMunchkin said:

What's everyone's opinion of skywagons?

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I would approach Skywagons like I would any strip-mall used car salesman.  They do not have a reputation comparable to a Jimmy Garrison/Gmax style operation.  I don’t have any personal experience with them, but knew someone who was based at Placerville.