M20C - hand pump flaps not staying in down position

[M20F-1968]

The teflon seals are coming soon.  I have been faced with a number of obstacles which I have been working my way through.  

If there are others wanting some of these seals PM me here on Mooneyspace so that I have everyone's information, name, address, e-mail, phone number in one place.

John Breda

[Kelpro999]

13 hours ago, rwabdu said:

integrity of that cable is

The cable only moves the small valve control lever on the side of the pump. Everything else is rod / jack shaft and return springs.

 

[Shadrach]

On 9/2/2024 at 2:56 AM, Kesk said:

Yeah it is a pain. Had a leaking HE625, probably had a solid inch of gunk from leaking for so many years. Resealed it and the HE626, no leaks but now they slowly come up once down, tried manually using the cable to actuate the cam. Sometimes it would seal and stay down, but now it never does it. Slowly comes up no matter how far in the closing direction the cam is pulled. Took it apart and resealed + bled it again, same problem.

Think it's a ball valve seat or something else besides an o-ring internally. I'm not aware if it was working before because the owner was not using the flaps as the leakage at the HE625 was so bad they just plain didn't work.

Honestly it could be a few things.  One test you can do is to turn the retraction speed screw all the way in until it bottoms out . This will completely block the return pathway back to the reservoir. If the flaps stay down with the screw bottomed out then the return valve ball needs to be recoined (staked) to its aluminum seat. 
If the flaps come up with the screw bottomed out, then fluid is leaking back through the pump side and the pump will need to be disassembled. DM me if you want and we can make arrangements to talk you through it. 

[Andy95W]

18 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

The teflon seals are coming soon.  I have been faced with a number of obstacles which I have been working my way through.  

If there are others wanting some of these seals PM me here on Mooneyspace so that I have everyone's information, name, address, e-mail, phone number in one place.

John Breda

Hi, John.  I tried to send a PM through Mooneyspace but it said you couldn’t receive messages.

[Kesk]

On 9/4/2024 at 6:36 PM, Shadrach said:

Honestly it could be a few things.  One test you can do is to turn the retraction speed screw all the way in until it bottoms out . This will completely block the return pathway back to the reservoir. If the flaps stay down with the screw bottomed out then the return valve ball needs to be recoined (staked) to its aluminum seat. 
If the flaps come up with the screw bottomed out, then fluid is leaking back through the pump side and the pump will need to be disassembled. DM me if you want and we can make arrangements to talk you through it. 

Thanks, I believe I tried with the screw fully bottomed out but not 100% sure. I've messed around with it for hours. It comes up very slowly, you can hear it creak and then it'll allow more pressure after about 30 seconds. You say you just hit the ball valve with a hammer and punch solid? I could not manage to get the needle-like piece with the AN6227-1 o-ring out even with the cam removed, seems like it would just prevent an exterior leak though? Not sure. Everything visually looked fine including the nylon discs and the ball seats. I am not 100% sure I put the springs back properly but usually I am a good boy and keep everything organized, and I had the parts breakdown...

Initially I got it just barely adjusted to where they'd come up (I actually watched your video so ~10 seconds), and down would hold after about 30 minutes on the ground. After that work it didn't pass the check flight though so owner has still been flying without flaps in the meantime basically. Not exactly a fan of the idea. The cable itself is an annoying adjustment but I believe this is because the cam isn't sealing right, I assume if it were sealing properly it wouldn't be such a nuisance to adjust. But I've disconnected the cable entirely and moved the arm by hand just to make sure, and it definitely isn't just a cable adjustment.

Edited September 8, 2024 by Kesk

[Shadrach]

On 9/7/2024 at 11:05 PM, Kesk said:

Thanks, I believe I tried with the screw fully bottomed out but not 100% sure. I've messed around with it for hours. It comes up very slowly, you can hear it creak and then it'll allow more pressure after about 30 seconds. You say you just hit the ball valve with a hammer and punch solid? I could not manage to get the needle-like piece with the AN6227-1 o-ring out even with the cam removed, seems like it would just prevent an exterior leak though? Not sure. Everything visually looked fine including the nylon discs and the ball seats. I am not 100% sure I put the springs back properly but usually I am a good boy and keep everything organized, and I had the parts breakdown...

Initially I got it just barely adjusted to where they'd come up (I actually watched your video so ~10 seconds), and down would hold after about 30 minutes on the ground. After that work it didn't pass the check flight though so owner has still been flying without flaps in the meantime basically. Not exactly a fan of the idea. The cable itself is an annoying adjustment but I believe this is because the cam isn't sealing right, I assume if it were sealing properly it wouldn't be such a nuisance to adjust. But I've disconnected the cable entirely and moved the arm by hand just to make sure, and it definitely isn't just a cable adjustment.

The plunger must be pushed out the cam side by applying force to the “needle” from the valve side.!I doubt the plunger is the problem. Recoining the valve seats does not take a lot of force. You’re not driving a nail. You”re just mating steel to aluminum in one case and steel to plastic in the other two.

[M20F-1968]

On 9/5/2024 at 12:33 PM, Andy95W said:

Hi, John.  I tried to send a PM through Mooneyspace but it said you couldn’t receive messages.

Try again, post your information here, and e-mail it to me at john.breda@gmail.com

John Breda

[Andy95W]

7 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

Try again, post your information here, and e-mail it to me at john.breda@gmail.com

John Breda

Thanks, will do.

[AIREMATT]

On 9/10/2024 at 10:56 AM, M20F-1968 said:

Try again, post your information here, and e-mail it to me at john.breda@gmail.com

John Breda

Had the same problem last month John.

Will email you my info. for the Teflon seats.

Thanks!