55 Gallon of oil

[kerry]

I was wondering if anyone has consider buying their oil buy the barrel.  I just did the calculations and if you buy a drum from aviation oil outlet it will save you approx $2/quart. Granted a drum weights 467 lbs, but if you have a place to store it and you buy a $20.00 pump that connects to the drum then it might make sense to buy a drum and refill old quart bottles. Seems like a big savings. 

[RoundTwo]

5 minutes ago, kerry said:

I was wondering if anyone has consider buying their oil buy the barrel.  I just did the calculations and if you buy a drum from aviation oil outlet it will save you approx $2/quart. Granted a drum weights 467 lbs, but if you have a place to store it and you buy a $20.00 pump that connects to the drum then it might make sense to buy a drum and refill old quart bottles. Seems like a big savings. 

Out of curiosity, I ran the numbers but didn’t see much difference. Are you including freight?

[N201MKTurbo]

It would reduce the load on the trash can in my hangar.

No need to fill quart bottles, just get one of those oil pitchers from the 30’s and use it.

[mhrivnak]

Spot checking aviationoiloutlet.com, where I usually buy oil, I see about a $1/quart savings on Phillips and $1.72 on W100 Plus.

My flying club buys oil by the barrel, and I think we hope to save about $1/quart. There's also the convenience of not constantly breaking open cardboard boxes and individual bottles; and speaking of that stuff, hopefully there's less waste, assuming the barrels can be recycled. But we do several oil changes per week, so we can get through a barrel in a reasonable amount of time.

For most people, 220 quarts is a lot of oil to buy at once.

[Hank]

29 minutes ago, mhrivnak said:

Spot checking aviationoiloutlet.com, where I usually buy oil, I see about a $1/quart savings on Phillips and $1.72 on W100 Plus.

My flying club buys oil by the barrel, and I think we hope to save about $1/quart. There's also the convenience of not constantly breaking open cardboard boxes and individual bottles; and speaking of that stuff, hopefully there's less waste, assuming the barrels can be recycled. But we do several oil changes per week, so we can get through a barrel in a reasonable amount of time.

For most people, 220 quarts is a lot of oil to buy at once.

At 7 qts per change, and 3 quarts to top up between changes, that 22 oil changes. With 50 hours per change, at 100 hours per year that would be 11 years worth of oil.

[kerry]

1 hour ago, mhrivnak said:

Spot checking aviationoiloutlet.com, where I usually buy oil, I see about a $1/quart savings on Phillips and $1.72 on W100 Plus.

My flying club buys oil by the barrel, and I think we hope to save about $1/quart. There's also the convenience of not constantly breaking open cardboard boxes and individual bottles; and speaking of that stuff, hopefully there's less waste, assuming the barrels can be recycled. But we do several oil changes per week, so we can get through a barrel in a reasonable amount of time.

For most people, 220 quarts is a lot of oil to buy at once.

You are correct.  Some how I did my math wrong prior to my initial post.  It's only $1 savings per quart.

[PT20J]

We bought oil in drums for the museum (big radials use a lot of oil). You need a cradle and spigot to mount it horizontally or a pump if you store it vertically, and it’s difficult to get the last bit of oil out. 

[Utah20Gflyer]

Are these savings calculations including the time value of money?  If you buy only the oil you need and put the rest of the money in CD I would imagine you wouldn’t see any savings.  
 

On the other hand with the way inflation has been recently maybe you would be paying double for the same oil 10 years from now and be way ahead.  
 

If someone has both a calculator and a crystal ball I would like a definitive answer. 

[skykrawler]

Shipping charges for 18 (12qt) cases of oil seems to be about $350.   Do these 'quart prices' include the shipping?

 

[A64Pilot]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:41 AM, PT20J said:

We bought oil in drums for the museum (big radials use a lot of oil). You need a cradle and spigot to mount it horizontally or a pump if you store it vertically, and it’s difficult to get the last bit of oil out. 

This is the way. Cradle can be 2x4’s or I like angle iron. Last time I had drums we built a run of 1340’ crop dusters. They held I think about 15 gls ea. So a drum for every three airplanes. They use 60W oil which is honestly about like pancake syrup on a cool day.

Also get a desiccant filter that screws into the Bung hole on the drum, yeah that really is what it’s called I promise. You want to keep moisture out.

[A64Pilot]

On 7/8/2023 at 12:42 PM, Utah20Gflyer said:

Are these savings calculations including the time value of money?  If you buy only the oil you need and put the rest of the money in CD I would imagine you wouldn’t see any savings.  
 

On the other hand with the way inflation has been recently maybe you would be paying double for the same oil 10 years from now and be way ahead.  
 

If someone has both a calculator and a crystal ball I would like a definitive answer. 

I believe a CD isn’t even keeping up with inflation at this point, they never really do even in good times I don’t think.

You have a valid point, but some of us when we have extra money like if possible to buy something in bulk and then eliminate that monthly expense if possible, concept of Solar I think?

What I would like and know it’s not happening, but I’d like to pre-buy say 10,000 gls of fuel and then of course what I burn is deducted from the total I have already paid for.

Fuel prices are too volatile for anyone to sign up for that thought.

[Pinecone]

35 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

What I would like and know it’s not happening, but I’d like to pre-buy say 10,000 gls of fuel and then of course what I burn is deducted from the total I have already paid for.

Fuel prices are too volatile for anyone to sign up for that thought.

That's how that airlines do it.  You just have to be willing to buy enough.

MS group long term fuel purchase????

 

[Utah20Gflyer]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

I believe a CD isn’t even keeping up with inflation at this point, they never really do even in good times I don’t think.

You have a valid point, but some of us when we have extra money like if possible to buy something in bulk and then eliminate that monthly expense if possible, concept of Solar I think?

What I would like and know it’s not happening, but I’d like to pre-buy say 10,000 gls of fuel and then of course what I burn is deducted from the total I have already paid for.

Fuel prices are too volatile for anyone to sign up for that thought.

In a round about way I was saying the primary purpose of buying a barrel of oil wouldn’t be financial but convenience and the certainty that you will always have oil available.  Saving a buck a quart  with the financial payoff being a decade away …….not a financial proposition that gets me excited.  

[kerry]

On 7/8/2023 at 9:58 AM, skykrawler said:

Shipping charges for 18 (12qt) cases of oil seems to be about $350.   Do these 'quart prices' include the shipping?

 

Aviation Oil Outlet has free shipping on orders greater than $75.  

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, Pinecone said:

That's how that airlines do it.  You just have to be willing to buy enough.

MS group long term fuel purchase????

 

The business schools used to do case studies on how Southwest kept profitable by hedging fuel up until about 2008.    When fuel prices tanked it hurt them pretty badly and all of a sudden it didn't look very smart.  I think the airlines are a little more careful these days.

It's kinda like how business debt was in vogue in the 90s and early 2000s.    You weren't "financially efficient" unless you were highly leveraging debt.    That wiped out a lot of businesses during the financial crash.   

[Justin Schmidt]

6 minutes ago, EricJ said:

The business schools used to do case studies on how Southwest kept profitable by hedging fuel up until about 2008.    When fuel prices tanked it hurt them pretty badly and all of a sudden it didn't look very smart.  I think the airlines are a little more careful these days.

It's kinda like how business debt was in vogue in the 90s and early 2000s.    You weren't "financially efficient" unless you were highly leveraging debt.    That wiped out a lot of businesses during the financial crash.   

Do you ever see those idiots on youtube saying you should keep taking out debt instead of pay it down/off. Same idiots that tank companies. Unfortunately, a lot of people follow them.

[skykrawler]

Todays debt is paid off with tomorrows dollars.   8% inflation?   Also, the company is less of a takeover target - that is if the company wants to retain control.

 

[EricJ]

9 hours ago, skykrawler said:

Todays debt is paid off with tomorrows dollars.   8% inflation?   Also, the company is less of a takeover target - that is if the company wants to retain control.

Debt holders are incentivized to drive you into bankruptcy when things go bad, though, so there's that.   I was a board member and partial owner in a company that had difficulty preventing the CEO from repeatedly personally loaning the company money (without board approval), which creates a conflict of interest since debt holders can recover assets during a bankruptcy while equity holders (owners) are wiped out.   An insider loaning money to the organization may not be a sign of dedication, it may be somebody looking to get assets for pennies on the dollar while they're pulling the levers to steer you out of business.