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[PeteMc]

6 minutes ago, rbp said:

on the 750, once you load and activate a VOR approach procedure, it will load the VOR's frequency into the VLOC radio

Just to clarify....   It will load it into the VOR Freq into the Standby Position, you still need to make it Active.  Same for the ILS.

But agree you should only have to push once to switch the Freq on the VOR and then again to switch the CDI mode.  On the ILS, pending how you have your settings, it will flip the CDI on it's own.

 

[jlunseth]

I don’t know that it’s worth going into for the OPs sake, I don’t think he is interested in a 750 although they are great instruments. The VOR issue I have is not that it won’t let me go into VLOC mode because it certainly will. But there is not a slick way to use it with the AP to fly a VOR except to leave it in the RNAV mode and let it fly an RNAV VNAV+V with the other system in VLOC to monitor. When I select a VOR approach, the RNAV VNAV+V is what comes up, not the true VOR. I have a newly installed 275 connected to the 750 and it is certainly possible to do all the button pushing needed to fly an entire VOR on VLOC, but the button pushing on the 275 is not nearly as simple as with my old King 256. It is doable, it’s not that the 750 won’t allow it or that the buttons can’t be pushed on the 275, but it is a lot of unnecessary messing around. It really really wants to be an RNAV approach system in the worst way.

Understand, the RNAV VNAV+V is a nice, easy way to fly a VOR. But I am training my self for a possible ATP-SE (mostly instrument work) and I wish it were possible to get a true VOR approach to come up on the GTN. Mostly I fly the VORs completely manually to get around the issue.

Edited January 2, 2023 by jlunseth

[Tx_Aggie]

After buying my J, the older garmin 480 WAAS was having trouble maintaining satellite integrity. While it was in The avionics shop attempting to make the 480 antenna more secure I had them add the 355, wondering if I’d ever actually need to have the nav for an ils approach. I haven’t looked back in 2.5 years - as someone said earlier more airports are not maintaining their ils and vor equipment but are dismantling them. Rnav/gps approaches are increasing at more small non-towered  airports now providing that much more capability. I don’t think it will be too long before the nav radios will belong in museums!

[RoundTwo]

On 12/16/2022 at 7:42 PM, jlunseth said:

I don’t know that it’s worth going into for the OPs sake,,,,

 

Oh yes it is. 

I’m also looking at one with a 750xi, so this is very helpful.

Thanks!

[jlunseth]

Well, in that case the 750 is a terrific instrument. I have mine connected to a 345 for traffic and a GDL69A for XM weather. I also use Foreflight on an iPad and it gets ADSB via a Stratus. The 750 is really slick. I have had mine for a year or more and am still finding new features. It does for navigation and instrument flying what a good engine monitor like the JPI 930 does for engine operation - puts you in a completely different league than the old factory instruments. It is certainly possible to fly instrument with GPSs like the 430 or the 355 that do not have a map, or not a very useful one. It is a whole different ballgame to be able to see what you are actually doing relative to an approach plate. There is nothing like a picture. I find I can dial in an approach on their 750 in about half the time it took with the 430. 

Relative to Foreflight, I like the traffic display on Foreflight better than the one on the 750. The 750 misses targets compared to Foreflight, and it is more difficult to determine a targets distance and threat on the 750 than on the iPad. I mentioned this on another thread and someone said its a configuration issue. Nope. It’s not. That’s the old “blame the pilot” excuse. That said, the traffic on the 750 is passable.

The weather I get on the 750 is exceptional and better than ADSB on Foreflight. Having flown in GA aircraft not as a pilot but sitting right seat and actually flying the plane way back in the VOR only days, weather on the panel is a massive safety improvement in my opinion. If you travel with your Mooney as I do with mine, it is sometimes important to see the weather ahead, say, 400 miles, so you can make some alternate plans in case, let’s say, you are approaching KRAP from the east in the middle of the summer and there are some of the typical Tstorms that are beginning their afternoon walk to the airport. You can’t get that with ADSB on Foreflight, but you can with the 750. 

I really like the ability to enter and select things via touchscreen, much faster to get a radio frequency or loading a waypoint than the old dial-up method on my 430. 

You can create holds pretty much anywhere with the 750, which was possibly only with a great deal of button pushing on the 430. Holds are rare in real life, but I seem to get one about once a year.

All that said, there are some things for which Foreflight is just nicer. For example, I will go out and fly approaches VFR by myself. I do it just to constantly walk through all the procedures. When I do, I want to see traffic on a georeferenced approach plate. Foreflight does a slick job of that. You can bring a plate up on the map view and make the plate semi-transparent. All the traffic will show up on the plate. You can do the same on the 750 but the plate is opaque and the traffic display is not as good as on Foreflight so I prefer Foreflight for that particular use.

[rbp]

6 hours ago, jlunseth said:

The 750 misses targets compared to Foreflight

I'm not sure you understand how ADS-B works

[Will.iam]

On 12/16/2022 at 6:42 PM, jlunseth said:

I don’t know that it’s worth going into for the OPs sake, I don’t think he is interested in a 750 although they are great instruments. The VOR issue I have is not that it won’t let me go into VLOC mode because it certainly will. But there is not a slick way to use it with the AP to fly a VOR except to leave it in the RNAV mode and let it fly an RNAV VNAV+V with the other system in VLOC to monitor. When I select a VOR approach, the RNAV VNAV+V is what comes up, not the true VOR. I have a newly installed 275 connected to the 750 and it is certainly possible to do all the button pushing needed to fly an entire VOR on VLOC, but the button pushing on the 275 is not nearly as simple as with my old King 256. It is doable, it’s not that the 750 won’t allow it or that the buttons can’t be pushed on the 275, but it is a lot of unnecessary messing around. It really really wants to be an RNAV approach system in the worst way.

Understand, the RNAV VNAV+V is a nice, easy way to fly a VOR. But I am training my self for a possible ATP-SE (mostly instrument work) and I wish it were possible to get a true VOR approach to come up on the GTN. Mostly I fly the VORs completely manually to get around the issue.

The Airbus is the same way as there is no way for the autopilot to fly off a VOR signal. It flys the VOR approach using RNAV GPS and you backup its progress with VOR raw data just to make sure it’s where it’s supposed to be. In fact the only ground based instrument the airbus can fly on autopilot is the localizer and glide slope signals. So there is no need for the functionally of flying off a VOR signal anymore these days. Course if the GPS is out and the ILS is out you could manually setup the autopilot to fly a heading and vertical speed down to the DAH of the vor using raw data or gasps hand fly it to the DAH. Or get a PAR if all else fails and if that’s not available go to somewhere were it’s VFR land and figure out how you got so cursed on that flight. 

[jlunseth]

Unless, of course, you are on a check ride and the DPE requires you to fly a standard VOR. I want to be able to practice one for that purpose. If I were flying a trip in real life it would be extremely unusual to have no other approach to fly than a VOR, and if I had to fly one I would surely use the VNAV+V out of the 750, it would be simpler.

Rbp, yes, I do understand ADSB. Yes, I should be able to see the same targets on the 750 and on Foreflight. What I am saying is that it does not actually turn out that way and it is not a configuration issue. Also, if I tap a target on Foreflight I get a whole host of helpful information out of Foreflight, such as altitude, route, heading, airspeed, tail number, aircraft type, etc. If it’s a Skyhawk doing 125 kts off to my right, that is a whole different thing than a G5 or even a Cirrus, I will pass the Skyhawk long before we converge, but I will have to hope the G5 passes me and is looking.. Tap again and it goes away. Lucky to get relative altitude and a course vector from the 750. Plus there are the occasional traffic alerts that essentially shut the screen down unless I clear it. 

[Will.iam]

39 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

Unless, of course, you are on a check ride and the DPE requires you to fly a standard VOR. I want to be able to practice one for that purpose. If I were flying a trip in real life it would be extremely unusual to have no other approach to fly than a VOR, and if I had to fly one I would surely use the VNAV+V out of the 750, it would be simpler.

Rbp, yes, I do understand ADSB. Yes, I should be able to see the same targets on the 750 and on Foreflight. What I am saying is that it does not actually turn out that way and it is not a configuration issue. Also, if I tap a target on Foreflight I get a whole host of helpful information out of Foreflight, such as altitude, route, heading, airspeed, tail number, aircraft type, etc. If it’s a Skyhawk doing 125 kts off to my right, that is a whole different thing than a G5 or even a Cirrus, I will pass the Skyhawk long before we converge, but I will have to hope the G5 passes me and is looking.. Tap again and it goes away. Lucky to get relative altitude and a course vector from the 750. Plus there are the occasional traffic alerts that essentially shut the screen down unless I clear it. 

Actually every year we get a check ride and sometimes they make us do a VOR approach and the examiner doesn’t have a problem with the airplane flying the VOR from the box that is really an RNAV overlay. But he will bust you for not backing up the approach with raw data displayed to include identifying you have the right VOR tuned identified and monitored and the correct course dialed in. 

[jlunseth]

Very good to know. I worried about the issue when the instruments first went in the plane but the more I use it the less concerned I am about a check ride and having to fly a true VOR.

[rbp]

19 hours ago, jlunseth said:

Rbp, yes, I do understand ADSB. Yes, I should be able to see the same targets on the 750 and on Foreflight. What I am saying is that it does not actually turn out that way and it is not a configuration issue. Also, if I tap a target on Foreflight I get a whole host of helpful information out of Foreflight, such as altitude, route, heading, airspeed, tail number, aircraft type, etc.

what you're missing is that foreflight and the 750 are just displays, they are not ADS-B devices

and if you still think it may not be a configuration issue, the 750 in my plane shows "altitude, route, heading, airspeed, tail number, aircraft type"

[rbp]

this is what you should be seeing (from the Garmin site)