GAMI Unleaded gets approval

[Canadian Gal]

My dad owns a trucking company, so does my brother, and uncle.

They poured the used oil out on the yard to control dust, and did so for anlong time.

Well they stopped maybe 10 years ago, and when I go there now, couldn't tell they ever dump a drop of oil in the yard, much less the oil from 300 semi truck oil changes per year.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Canadian Gal said:

My dad owns a trucking company, so does my brother, and uncle.

They poured the used oil out on the yard to control dust, and did so for anlong time.

Well they stopped maybe 10 years ago, and when I go there now, couldn't tell they ever dump a drop of oil in the yard, much less the oil from 300 semi truck oil changes per year.

I went to the beach when we took a trip to Santa Barbara about 10 years ago.  When we walked back in, I was trailing black stains on the floor.  I panicked a little, thinking I had cut myself and was trailing blood, but it wasn't--I had all the black sticky stains all over both feet, and realized it must have been from the beach.  We asked the hotel manager about it and he reminded us to wash our feet if we go to the beach, because the oil globules from the oil spill 40 years before were still there just under the surface.

[GeeBee]

There has been oil on the beach in Santa Barbara since I was a little kid there in the late 1950's. (60 years)The ocean floor there oozes oil and has for years and only "stuber greenies" like your hotel manager will not admit it.

 

 

[EricJ]

As long as only the appearance of the surface matters things are great.   This assumes that you don't need groundwater for anything, which is usually a bad assumption.    We have a superfund site in Scottsdale that has spent about forty years attempting to get TCE out of the groundwater from surface and dry well dumps used by manufacturers in the 1960s when such things were still used.

Usually when you find out something hurts in places you didn't expect it's best to stop doing it.

[Pinecone]

27 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

There has been oil on the beach in Santa Barbara since I was a little kid there in the late 1950's. (60 years)The ocean floor there oozes oil and has for years and only "stuber greenies" like your hotel manager will not admit it.

 

 

Yeap, same in the San Diego area beaches.

I grew up there in the late 50s/early 60s and had the same issue.

[GeeBee]

Oil was discovered in CA because it was seeping onto the surface, the LaBrea tar pits to be exact. 

In Santa Barbara, the problem is not that there was drilling, but there was not enough drilling. The only way you're going to stop natural seepage is to relieve the pressure from the "zits" in the ocean floor that ooze oil. In 1994 the CA legislature restricted a lot of off shore drilling and the problem of natural seepage which will hurt more wildlife and the natural seepage will only get worse.

Interestingly, the Santa Barbara oil spill in 1969 spilled 3 million gallons. The area seeps (according to the NOAA) 9 million a year. Three times the spill.

[kortopates]

42 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Yeap, same in the San Diego area beaches.

I grew up there in the late 50s/early 60s and had the same issue.

I don't know about that. We had some tar balls on our SD beaches but only after a major oil spill up in the Long Beach area not too long ago, otherwise SD beaches have been free of oil the last 50 years I've been here.

[Pinecone]

Hmm, I was last in SD in about 2010.  GF walked the beach and ended up with some on her feet.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

Yeap, same in the San Diego area beaches.

I grew up there in the late 50s/early 60s and had the same issue.

I grew up in San Diego in the 70's and 80's and don't recall issues with oil on beaches.  I imagine the local geology has not changed much...

Edited January 23, 2023 by jaylw314

[MikeOH]

4 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I grew up in San Diego in the 70's and 80's and don't recall issues with oil on beaches.  I imagine the local geology has not changed much...

And, I grew up in the Newport Beach area in the 60's, 70's, and 80's...and I remember sometimes there was oil on the beaches (and, NOT because of an oil spill).  That's consistent with this quote from the NOAA Oil Seep paper GeeBee referenced:

"As the oil drifts away from the seeps in Southern California and continues to weather, it forms tarballs and mats. These may come ashore or be carried more than 100 miles up or down the California coast, as far south as San Diego and north as Point Reyes near San Francisco."

[T. Peterson]

5 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Hmm, I was last in SD in about 2010.  GF walked the beach and ended up with some on her feet.

South Dakota has beaches? Very cool!!….especially this time of year!

[carusoam]

Dumping oil on your property is a really bad idea….

It leaches into the ground… gets picked up by the water flow under it… and heads off down stream…

The environmental disaster is easy to measure, and trace… until they find the source.

The clean up can cost a whole lot more than the business that was on the property….

The lawsuits from the neighbors are huge…

Of course… this is US EPA stuff that started in the 70s…. And no… it never goes away on its own… (not in our lifetime)

Its ability to biodegrade, requires air and water…. And that isn’t always available underground either…  to get the bio-degrading process going after the BP/TransOcean spill in the gulf… there was a huge amount of chemicals used like a surfactant… to brake up the clumps… the individual molecules need to be available, so they can be bio-degraded…  there aren’t a lot of oil eating amoebas around when you need them….

Activities like this often turn into superfund sites… where the land can’t be used or sold like it once was…

Even homes with steel oil tanks aren’t allowed to stay in the ground anymore… most oil tanks get changed to fiberglass, or in the basement close to the heater…

Lakes and rivers are usually the place that tips off the people where they see a sheen on the surface coming from somewhere…

If outboard engines can’t be two-strokes anymore… somebody is watching the local lake…. For oil sheens…

The solution to pollution is dilution…. - some chemist back in the day… 

PP thoughts from NJ… not an environmental engineer… (but I know a few) 
 

Best regards,

-a-

[ragedracer1977]

7 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Oil was discovered in CA because it was seeping onto the surface, the LaBrea tar pits to be exact. 

In Santa Barbara, the problem is not that there was drilling, but there was not enough drilling. The only way you're going to stop natural seepage is to relieve the pressure from the "zits" in the ocean floor that ooze oil. In 1994 the CA legislature restricted a lot of off shore drilling and the problem of natural seepage which will hurt more wildlife and the natural seepage will only get worse.

Interestingly, the Santa Barbara oil spill in 1969 spilled 3 million gallons. The area seeps (according to the NOAA) 9 million a year. Three times the spill.

Fun fact that a lot of people don’t know… there are oil drilling and pumping rigs all over down town LA. They’re just disguised.

Dots are wells.  The other picture is signal hill in 1924.

 

 

[carusoam]

Brice,

Don’t forget the fake islands off shore as well… hiding the rigs from the unknowing eyes…

There are also oil pipes under the harbor around LA…

Some ship dragged an anchor and broke a pipe… a year or so ago… during the shipping debacle…

Ships have transponders like planes, on 24/7… a system called AIS(?)…

It was pretty easy to identify who dragged the anchor…. From their intended parking spot…

Best regards,

-a-

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Fun fact that a lot of people don’t know… there are oil drilling and pumping rigs all over down town LA. They’re just disguised.

Dots are wells.  The other picture is signal hill in 1924.

My favorite is the pump next to the athletic field at Beverly Hills High School.  They tried to dress it up in artsy facades but it just ends up looking bizarre

[ilovecornfields]

10 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I grew up in San Diego in the 70's and 80's and don't recall issues with oil on beaches.  I imagine the local geology has not changed much...

I grew up in Sandy Eggo during that time and also don’t recall any oil on the beach. 

[GeeBee]

I would say this about San Diego. Don't know about natural seepage around that time but......a lot of oil fired US Navy ships and bilge discharges at that time were not regulated. Bunker oil is pretty heavy.

[Pinecone]

There are oil eating bacteria.   Of course, you have to be careful that you do not let them get into oil you don't want eaten.

And nothing stopping anaerobic (no O2 required) bacteria to eat oil.

Yeah, I remember driving up to LA and ALL the oil wells pumping away.

[N201MKTurbo]

When I was a kid I had cousins who lived in Costa Mesa CA, so I ended up at Newport Beach a few times a year. I remember a few times where there were tar balls on the beach. We all had to be inspected before we got into the car and cleaned with paint thinner if we were contaminated. 

[N201MKTurbo]

Most people seem to ignore the fact that oil is a natural organic product. A gift from mother nature. Some act like it is an evil daemon imported from another planet. 

Organic: relating or belonging to the class of chemical compounds having a carbon basis

[A64Pilot]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:35 AM, Fly Boomer said:

And, it could destroy what remains of the ozone layer, and put a stop to all the whining.

Natural gas destroys ozone?

I believe it burns far cleaner than oil or coal, what hydrocarbon source is cleaner?

I think it funny when I hear about gas stoves being banned, what are they going to replace them with? Electric? Where are they going to get that? Burn oil or coal? 

California imports 30% of their electricity now, so I guess they will just import more, because what they get from Solar, wind etc is a pittance, 3%

Methinks maybe some are playing with the numbers because I see numbers much higher than 3% elsewhere

“ Imports help fill the gap when that renewables capacity isn't available. For instance, at 4:50 p.m. on Nov. 29, just 3 percent of California Independent System Operator load was being served by renewables, and about 70 percent by natural gas and imports”

https://www.newsdata.com/california_energy_markets/bottom_lines/californias-reliance-on-energy-imports-set-to-grow-sharply-in-the-future/article_911638cc-5484-11ec-a11f-7fad1f92b1ee.html

[A64Pilot]

22 hours ago, Canadian Gal said:

My dad owns a trucking company, so does my brother, and uncle.

They poured the used oil out on the yard to control dust, and did so for anlong time.

Well they stopped maybe 10 years ago, and when I go there now, couldn't tell they ever dump a drop of oil in the yard, much less the oil from 300 semi truck oil changes per year.

Oil was used forever, usually of course waste oil, but what type of oil is important.

I believe one of the Superfund sites became one because transformer oil from old transformers was spread on the road to control dust and it’s full of Dioxins?

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/road-contamination-prompts-evacuation-of-town

Friend who used to fly Airshow Aerobatics said they used it for smoke oil because they could get if for free, and that wasn’t that long ago really.

‘But that oil that was spread on your property is very likely showing up in the ground water.

‘Where I’m from in Georgia a Pecan farmer spread tons of chicken waste on his pecan groves for fertilizer, it was natural organic etc right? Well a whole bunch of his neighbors wells are now poisoned from excess Nitrates, and aren’t usable for potable water anymore, and they have no access to other water.

https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/water/wells/waterquality/nitrate.html

He’s not very popular I don’t believe.

[Canadian Gal]

5 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Oil was used forever, usually of course waste oil, but what type of oil is important.

I believe one of the Superfund sites became one because transformer oil from old transformers was spread on the road to control dust and it’s full of Dioxins?

Friend who used to fly Airshow Aerobatics said they used it for smoke oil because they could get if for free, and tgat wasn’t that long ago really.

It was a regular practice in this area to dump oil on the ground until 10 or 15 years ago.

Nowadays it is frowned upon,  but not in the past.

[A64Pilot]

20 minutes ago, Canadian Gal said:

It was a regular practice in this area to dump oil on the ground until 10 or 15 years ago.

Nowadays it is frowned upon,  but not in the past.

It was where I lived too, the local dirt race track was sprayed every week I believe, trucks with tanks and a pipe with spray nozzles were used.

I don’t think paving roads with asphalt is too much different, they spray some kind of black tar like substance down then put the asphalt on it.

Asphalt is pretty much oil / petroleum and rock? So we are still doing it?

On edit, Way I see it is a very large part of the problem is just since my birth in 1958, there are now more than twice as many people in the US, so doing things now is simply way more volume than used to be, so the solution to pollution is dilution breaks down.

 

[Canadian Gal]

23 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

It was where I lived too, the local dirt race track was sprayed every week I believe, trucks with tanks and a pipe with spray nozzles were used.

I don’t think paving roads with asphalt is too much different, they spray some kind of black tar like substance down then put the asphalt on it.

Asphalt is pretty much oil / petroleum and rock? So we are still doing it?

On edit, Way I see it is a very large part of the problem is just since my birth in 1958, there are now more than twice as many people in the US, so doing things now is simply way more volume than used to be, so the solution to pollution is dilution breaks down.

 

I was born in 1987 and have seen a lot of changes even since I was a kid.