Wing fuel dial

[Ragsf15e]

I doubt it’s great for the paint, but if it’s cut to a nice circle just enough bigger than the dial, it doesn’t look terrible.  And if it keeps the dial protected?

The real question is whether @PT20J Skip will put it on the dials after his new paint job?!

[Pinecone]

On 3/13/2025 at 10:03 PM, dkkim73 said:

Yours is a good idea... Extended markings to relieve the pressure to get specifically marked gauges. 

IIUC the capsules are the same with different embedded markings. That's my experience retrofitting gauges.

So your approach gets around the problem of finding the correct gauges or re marking them. 

Another advantage to doing it this way, is you can adjust the markings for Monroy tanks.

[Cayman44]

The Amazon dial with tabs and % full, 5323S01792 is no longer available on Amazon, but found quite a few on eBay.  Bought one yesterday to test.  However am reaching out to many sources for originals - will let you know.  Cannot see the $100 mark up over eBay for what is virtually the same gauge.

[Yetti]

What might be a good idea is to scribe marks on the outer ring of the housing in case your current one departs.  Back up the scribe marks with a sharpie.  Then just pop in a new one.   If you remove the part number and just search for the Rochester Gauge Dial, you can find the whole assembly for cheaper than just the Gauge.    https://www.ebay.com/itm/266988774019?_skw=Rochester+Gauges+Dial+Capsule&itmmeta=01JPDFB307TJ2HMPMA5QDC49VJ&hash=item3e29c56283:g:n44AAOSwshVm5EuJ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAABAFkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1ffSDznTkzMUk6T5KytV%2FkzTMgkAfKAelweTlHLk0bpebRZqX1k%2FLLVOfOuHPdEo0Y9p%2FcUK0jD0tcbv7t5RugqvRxM5SE5LctElmevBIQTaYY1zpWrUPpcWrcFbQ%2BqiymLy6JQxX%2FnldEd7jQ4HDOIaUGwkfVY7fH3kSOQUU1qv7yVaKQPkZJkMVcH%2FM1EG9IE6zWEv2x%2BQiTEIe7Fqj8vOHRVPxqNql2N0qyHrgBvHT%2FS%2BbSFfiUVoDUXJP9p4Ei5LF9K%2FzK8EEoL3ZAvarSrocnZ1FWmlN5XOGuwg3E954ySH5PBrKp78QvFM70I3f4%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6CwrK-zZQ

[Cayman44]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

What might be a good idea is to scribe marks on the outer ring of the housing in case your current one departs.  Back up the scribe marks with a sharpie.  Then just pop in a new one.   If you remove the part number and just search for the Rochester Gauge Dial, you can find the whole assembly for cheaper than just the Gauge.    https://www.ebay.com/itm/266988774019?_skw=Rochester+Gauges+Dial+Capsule&itmmeta=01JPDFB307TJ2HMPMA5QDC49VJ&hash=item3e29c56283:g:n44AAOSwshVm5EuJ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAABAFkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1ffSDznTkzMUk6T5KytV%2FkzTMgkAfKAelweTlHLk0bpebRZqX1k%2FLLVOfOuHPdEo0Y9p%2FcUK0jD0tcbv7t5RugqvRxM5SE5LctElmevBIQTaYY1zpWrUPpcWrcFbQ%2BqiymLy6JQxX%2FnldEd7jQ4HDOIaUGwkfVY7fH3kSOQUU1qv7yVaKQPkZJkMVcH%2FM1EG9IE6zWEv2x%2BQiTEIe7Fqj8vOHRVPxqNql2N0qyHrgBvHT%2FS%2BbSFfiUVoDUXJP9p4Ei5LF9K%2FzK8EEoL3ZAvarSrocnZ1FWmlN5XOGuwg3E954ySH5PBrKp78QvFM70I3f4%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6CwrK-zZQ

That looks like the correct  % dial, for a lot less than separately purchased on ebay, but the assembly is wrong.   This is what the fuel float assembly looks like for the M20M.

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, Cayman44 said:

The Amazon dial with tabs and % full, 5323S01792 is no longer available on Amazon, but found quite a few on eBay.  Bought one yesterday to test.  However am reaching out to many sources for originals - will let you know.  Cannot see the $100 mark up over eBay for what is virtually the same gauge.

You won't find this exact gauge, new, for sale anywhere else. Rochester builds it for Mooney and will only sell it to Mooney, who then sells it through their Mooney Service Centers.

Mooney has a whiteboard which we saw back on the tour during MooneyMax 2024 where they have parts that need to be ordered, the number backordered and the minimum order before they place it.

This has been mentioned many times on Mooneyspace, but the advice to get these fuel gauges is to go through a Mooney Service Center. Have them backorder a couple of them for you. Sadly with some MSCs you have to convince them to place the backorder. Mooney has said that once they reach a certain level on backorder that exceeds their minimum order with the manufacturer, they will place the order. Quite a few people that have needed these in the past few years just demand them now and complain about the company, never place the backorder and won't listen to reason. I haven't needed many things in the last few years, but every time I have followed the advice they have come through for me.

 

[Ragsf15e]

1 minute ago, LANCECASPER said:

You won't find this exact gauge, new, for sale anywhere else. Rochester build it for Mooney and will only sell it to Mooney, who then sells it through their Mooney Service Centers.

Mooney has a whiteboard which we saw back on the tour during MooneyMax 2024 where they have parts that need to be ordered, the number backordered and the minimum order before they place it.

This has been mentioned many times on Mooneyspace, but the advice to get these fuel gauges is to go through a Mooney Service Center. Have them backorder a couple of them for you. Sadly with some MSCs you have to convince them to place the backorder. Mooney has said that once they reach a certain level on backorder that exceeds their minimum order with the manufacturer, they will place the order. Quite a few people that have needed these in the past few years just demand them now and complain about the company, never place the backorder and won't listen to reason. I haven't needed many things in the last few years, but every time I have followed the advice they have come through for me.

 

One problem is as you said, convincing an msc to make the order. I had to call 4 last week to put a part on backorder, expecting 28 week lead time….

[LANCECASPER]

1 minute ago, Ragsf15e said:

One problem is as you said, convincing an msc to make the order. I had to call 4 last week to put a part on backorder, expecting 28 week lead time….

I believe what happens is that people get impatient after a backorder and buy a used part, or decide they don't want or need it and then when it's available they then end up canceling their order. A lot of work for an MSC for no sale.

[Cayman44]

15 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

You won't find this exact gauge, new, for sale anywhere else. Rochester builds it for Mooney and will only sell it to Mooney, who then sells it through their Mooney Service Centers.

Mooney has a whiteboard which we saw back on the tour during MooneyMax 2024 where they have parts that need to be ordered, the number backordered and the minimum order before they place it.

This has been mentioned many times on Mooneyspace, but the advice to get these fuel gauges is to go through a Mooney Service Center. Have them backorder a couple of them for you. Sadly with some MSCs you have to convince them to place the backorder. Mooney has said that once they reach a certain level on backorder that exceeds their minimum order with the manufacturer, they will place the order. Quite a few people that have needed these in the past few years just demand them now and complain about the company, never place the backorder and won't listen to reason. I haven't needed many things in the last few years, but every time I have followed the advice they have come through for me.

 

Wing fuel dials were hard to find when they were around $100 five years ago. People needed them. Now they are upwards of over $140 and people still need them.  If one MSC would order 100 of them, I think they would sell out in short order.  Why doesn't an MSC do that?   We Mooney owners have a problem and no one is solving it.  Doesw anyone know what is goijng on at the factory?  Does anyone work there anymore.  Why cannot each MSC order direct from Rochester. One would think that the MSC's talk to one another and some would pair up to purchase minimum orders.  Where is the global data base that all MSC's can see what minimum parts orders are and what MSC's are putting in needs for parts. Where is the shared information base across the entire country.  Or am I just dreaming. 

[LANCECASPER]

1 minute ago, Cayman44 said:

Wing fuel dials were hard to find when they were around $100 five years ago. People needed them. Now they are upwards of over $140 and people still need them.  If one MSC would order 100 of them, I think they would sell out in short order.  Why doesn't an MSC do that?   We Mooney owners have a problem and no one is solving it.  Doesw anyone know what is goijng on at the factory?  Does anyone work there anymore.  Why cannot each MSC order direct from Rochester. One would think that the MSC's talk to one another and some would pair up to purchase minimum orders.  Where is the global data base that all MSC's can see what minimum parts orders are and what MSC's are putting in needs for parts. Where is the shared information base across the entire country.  Or am I just dreaming. 

Rochester only sells to Mooney, not Mooney Service Centers. Mooney owns the drawing for that part and Rochester makes it to their specs.

Gone are the days when most shops carry inventory. 

36 people work at the factory, producing parts as needed and keeping the fleet supported in other ways. 

This subject has been discussed ad nauseum on here. You can spend all of your time and energy wishing things were different or you can get in line, place your order, and eventually get the part you need.

[GeeBee]

9 minutes ago, Cayman44 said:

Where is the shared information base across the entire country.  Or am I just dreaming. 

It is a nice dream. Wish it were so. As it is we have to trust in some wee gee board in Kerrville.

[Cayman44]

I

7 minutes ago, Cayman44 said:

Wing fuel dials were hard to find when they were around $100 five years ago. People needed them. Now they are upwards of over $140 and people still need them.  If one MSC would order 100 of them, I think they would sell out in short order.  Why doesn't an MSC do that?   We Mooney owners have a problem and no one is solving it.  Doesw anyone know what is goijng on at the factory?  Does anyone work there anymore.  Why cannot each MSC order direct from Rochester. One would think that the MSC's talk to one another and some would pair up to purchase minimum orders.  Where is the global data base that all MSC's can see what minimum parts orders are and what MSC's are putting in needs for parts. Where is the shared information base across the entire country.  Or am I just dreaming. 

 

37 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

One problem is as you said, convincing an msc to make the order. I had to call 4 last week to put a part on backorder, expecting 28 week lead time….

I would say right there is our problem - the MSC.  One should not have to call 4.  The one you call should be able to look and interact with the "factory" data base.  If the part exists at the factory or some other MSC - the database should tell him that and who to call.  If no one has it, the database should tell him the lead time and if a min order is needed.  You then decide to put down a deposit and order it.  Or go search all the wreckage yards.  Wreckage yards usually have access to a global data base of where wrecked parts are.  That's how I found auto parts 30 years ago and some mooney parts ten years ago.

[Cayman44]

10 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Rochester only sells to Mooney, not Mooney Service Centers. Mooney owns the drawing for that part and Rochester makes it to their specs.

Gone are the days when most shops carry inventory. 

36 people work at the factory, producing parts as needed and keeping the fleet supported in other ways. 

This subject has been discussed ad nauseum on here. You can spend all of your time and energy wishing things were different or you can get in line, place your order, and eventually get the part you need.

Thanks

[Cayman44]

6 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

It is a nice dream. Wish it were so. As it is we have to trust in some wee gee board in Kerrville.

Now I understand why Mooney went under - customer support.  Customer support gets around and kills all future purchases.

[Marc_B]

48 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Rochester only sells to Mooney, not Mooney Service Centers. Mooney owns the drawing for that part and Rochester makes it to their specs.

I wonder if that's necessarily the case...i.e. I suspect it may be more accurate to say Rochester only sells in bulk.  If you had the correct Rochester model number and called to order 1000 or so dials, I suspect you would be able to order them from Rochester or one of their vendors.

I previously called Century Springs about the speed brake springs and they were all set to allow me to place an order but said minimum order $800.

Therein lies the rub with Mooney.  A MSC puts in an order for 10 dials, Mooney calls Rochester who says you're about 990 short (WAG number), so Mooney says "on backorder" until the magic number of parts orders received.  GONE are the days where Mooney orders bulk from a vendor for an order of 2 from a MSC.

 

I suspect a more logical pathway may be to convince a place like Aircraft Spruce, McFarlane, or Univair that a market for "part number xxx" exists so that they could buy the minimum number of parts and have available for special order.  The RUB is that it wouldn't be a Mooney certified part as it didn't come from Mooney and get a rubber stamp.  So you'd need the proper Rochester part number and would receive a Rochester part.

Does anyone have contacts at aircraft parts warehouses like Spruce that could explore ordering a minimum purchase order from Rochester?

[Cayman44]

17 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

I wonder if that's necessarily the case...i.e. I suspect it may be more accurate to say Rochester only sells in bulk.  If you had the correct Rochester model number and called to order 1000 or so dials, I suspect you would be able to order them from Rochester or one of their vendors.

I'll let you know.  I'm trying to find that minimum order number.  And will decide whether to go all in or not.  I just need to break even.   What I really need is to fly more.  Two back surgeries in the last year held me back.

[Marc_B]

On 5/2/2024 at 9:02 AM, PT20J said:

Apparently, the 5- number on the dial is not the actual part number.

Skip, do you happen to know the face number to part number matrix used for the various Mooneys?

@flyboy0681 mentioned M20J showing back with "5404S02105 2822" ...is the front dial face 5-2105??

@NickG showed pic for 5-2100 face for Ovation corresponding to "5404S02100  4803" on back of dial face.

On my M20K the face has dial number 5-1932.  Seems like this "might" imply that part number could be "5404S01932"???

 

How many different dial face numbers are in use with the wing sight gauges across the fleet?

M20K IPC has two part numbers for dial for this:  880024-001 and -003.  I believe this corresponds to 5-2100 (-001) and 5-1932 (-003)...  for reference this was in IPC section 57-30-01.

EDIT: looking at Lasar website...here's Mooney's PN vs dial face number

880024-001     5-1215

880024-003     5-1932

880024-005     5-2105

880024-007     5-02512

880024-009     5-2100

[GeeBee]

23 minutes ago, Cayman44 said:

I'll let you know.  I'm trying to find that minimum order number.  And will decide whether to go all in or not.  I just need to break even.   What I really need is to fly more.  Two back surgeries in the last year held me back.

If you find that number, let me know. I might be interested.

[PT20J]

Here's the problem:

If the minimum order is (reasonable guess) 100 per part number, and there are 5 part numbers, and perhaps the cost (to Mooney) is $75 each (guess) then that's 5 x 100 x $75 = $37,500. Now, there is only an occasional post here looking for one gone missing across all these part numbers. Most Mooneys don't even use them. So how many of each part number would Mooney sell per year? Probably less than 10; maybe way less. Now perhaps Mooney could get enough orders to make it make sense if everyone that had them ordered one or two as spares, but then many owners are self-proclaimed CBs and feel ripped of paying $140 for a "$10 part" (perceived value) and would not want to do so unless theirs actually went missing. 

I've talked to the owners of a couple of well-known, long-term MSCs. They generally don't enjoy selling parts, though of course they will do it since it is part of being a MSC. The reason is that many owners order the wrong part, complain about the price, then find out it's the wrong part and want to return it. If it came from the factory, Mooney charges a restocking fee (20% if I recall correctly) which they complain about. There is not enough markup in the parts to make it worth the hassle. That's why most MSCs were happy to let LASAR (which is just another MSC) have most of the parts business. 

[Cayman44]

7 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Here's the problem:

If the minimum order is (reasonable guess) 100 per part number, and there are 5 part numbers, and perhaps the cost (to Mooney) is $75 each (guess) then that's 5 x 100 x $75 = $37,500. Now, there is only an occasional post here looking for one gone missing across all these part numbers. Most Mooneys don't even use them. So how many of each part number would Mooney sell per year? Probably less than 10; maybe way less. Now perhaps Mooney could get enough orders to make it make sense if everyone that had them ordered one or two as spares, but then many owners are self-proclaimed CBs and feel ripped of paying $140 for a "$10 part" (perceived value) and would not want to do so unless theirs actually went missing. 

I've talked to the owners of a couple of well-known, long-term MSCs. They generally don't enjoy selling parts, though of course they will do it since it is part of being a MSC. The reason is that many owners order the wrong part, complain about the price, then find out it's the wrong part and want to return it. If it came from the factory, Mooney charges a restocking fee (20% if I recall correctly) which they complain about. There is not enough markup in the parts to make it worth the hassle. That's why most MSCs were happy to let LASAR (which is just another MSC) have most of the parts business. 

I think you are high on the factory cost.  If the MSC sells it for $140, they might be buying it at $70 from Mooney and Mooney might be buying it from Rochester for under $35.   If Rochester knew that we were all going to extend our gallon lines from what ever model dial we have and then buy from where ever model 5-1792's maybe on ebay at $30-$50 each, they might decide to have an internal attitude check.  I should know something hopefully this week.  As soon as my ebay 5-1792 arrives, I'll be doing a fit-up into that spare fuel float assembly I have and let you all know.

[Marc_B]

Farming also uses Rochester Sensors for liquid level magnetic tank gauges for fuel, diesel, etc.  Most of the gauges you can find retail for around $30, but they're typically labeled E, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, F.  So a bulk order from Rochester would likely be relatively inexpensive per part, but certainly that would depend on your total order quantity.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Cayman44 said:

I think you are high on the factory cost.  If the MSC sells it for $140, they might be buying it at $70 from Mooney and Mooney might be buying it from Rochester for under $35.   If Rochester knew that we were all going to extend our gallon lines from what ever model dial we have and then buy from where ever model 5-1792's maybe on ebay at $30-$50 each, they might decide to have an internal attitude check.  I should know something hopefully this week.  As soon as my ebay 5-1792 arrives, I'll be doing a fit-up into that spare fuel float assembly I have and let you all know.

OK: 100 x 5 x $35 = $17,500. Still not pocket change. Assuming Mooney sells 10 of each part number per year, that's a ten year supply. Do the ROI math on that at whatever interest rate you assume and make it pencil out. 

Personally, I'd rather Mooney spend the money on parts that keep the airplane airworthy. Sure, I'd miss one of my wing gauges if it disappeared and I couldn't replace it. But, I could still fly the airplane. I can think of lots of parts that could ground the airplane if I couldn't get one from Mooney. I was happy that Mooney had just made a batch of nose gear legs when an FBO damaged mine.

@LANCECASPER described how to get Mooney to make parts. So, if all of us that had wing gauges ordered two, it would only take 50 orders of each part number (assuming that the min order is 100) to get them made. Who knows what the price will be, but it will certainly be only a few hundred bucks which is a round off error in aviation costs. I'm going to order two on Monday. Anyone else with me? Or is everyone just going to complain?

[Cayman44]

I can wait until I have more information.  I have a spare.

[GeeBee]

6 hours ago, PT20J said:

Anyone else with me? Or is everyone just going to complain?

I have had my order in for over a year. 

[GeeBee]

I will also say this. With a little litigation, Mooney's contract with Rochester could be broken as illegal restraint of trade, particularly when Mooney is unwilling to supply the parts.