Non-turbo Mooneys; your preference if you could find it.

[DCarlton]

Obviously this is one of those philosophical threads but I'm curious about everyone's thoughts if you have time.  I've had my '67F for around 17-18 years now.  It could end up being my forever plane; it'll need a tank reseal eventually but it's a great airplane.  But I'm thinking I may "deserve" another, perhaps newer, Mooney experience while I'm still able to fly.  If you could buy any J or Ovation production year(s), what would be your choice?  And yep I know the good ones priced fairly sell in days not weeks.  But I've got a Mooney; I've got time.  :> 

Edited November 23, 2021 by DCarlton

[MatthiasArnold]

Well ... my very biased preference is ... Ovation

• You can reach (almost) the some economy and efficiency as with the J (something to consider with German/European AVGAS prices >> 11USD/gal, going up)
• The big-bore NA TCM IO550 provides some nice reserves now and then..

Just my very personnel biased opinion..

Best,
Matthias

BTW: The J is a great airplane, of course (its a Mooney)!

[WaynePierce]

As Matthias stated... I'm rather partial to my 1985 J. Of course it might be because it's the only Mooney I've ever flown :-)

[philip_g]

I'd buy a 252 or bravo or O. I really don't love my j and probably wouldn't buy another but that's just me. I don't see the f to j as much of an upgrade to justify the cost and risk

Edited November 23, 2021 by philip_g

[Ragsf15e]

I’d buy an O with tks.  If you’re going to fly in the weather, it is definitely worth having even if rarely used.  Yes it costs some mx $$and a couple knots () , but It’s better off having than wishing you had it.

[PilotX]

Brav-O is better than a regular O. Just saying.

[201er]

1 hour ago, DCarlton said:

Obviously this is one of those philosophical threads but I'm curious about everyone's thoughts if you have time.  I've had my '67F for around 17-18 years now.  It could end up being my forever plane; it'll need a tank reseal eventually but it's a great airplane.  But I'm thinking I may "deserve" another, perhaps newer, Mooney experience while I'm still able to fly.  If you could buy any J or Ovation production year(s), what would be your choice?  And yep I know the good ones priced fairly sell in days not weeks.  But I've got a Mooney; I've got time.  :> 

@Seth will tell you the only Mooney worth upgrading to from an F is a Missile.

[philip_g]

15 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I’d buy an O with tks.  If you’re going to fly in the weather, it is definitely worth having even if rarely used.  Yes it costs some mx $$and a couple knots () , but It’s better off having than wishing you had it.

If I was still flying around icing I'd agree. Right now I'd take AC instead. Just depends on the mission

[philip_g]

12 minutes ago, 201er said:

@Seth will tell you the only Mooney worth upgrading to from an F is a Missile.

Another good option... If you can find one

Edited November 23, 2021 by philip_g

[Danb]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

@Seth will tell you the only Mooney worth upgrading to from an F is a Missile.

Until I saw yours last week…just saying

[Hank]

There are two Mooney models that I've long favored but can't justify for myself:  the Encore is the ultimate Mooney (but turbocharged, so out of this discussion), and the wonderful Missile!

But I'm still really enjoying my little C. 

[philip_g]

20 minutes ago, Hank said:

There are two Mooney models that I've long favored but can't justify for myself:  the Encore is the ultimate Mooney (but turbocharged, so out of this discussion), and the wonderful Missile!

But I'm still really enjoying my little C. 

I wish you could still do the missile conversion. I feel like it would still sell.

[201er]

46 minutes ago, Hank said:

There are two Mooney models that I've long favored but can't justify for myself:  the Encore is the ultimate Mooney (but turbocharged, so out of this discussion), and the wonderful Missile!

But I'm still really enjoying my little C. 

Which one is the Encore? The 252? Or is that a special edition of it.

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, 201er said:

Which one is the Encore? The 252? Or is that a special edition of it.

It's an updated 252. Paul just did the conversion to his last year. Some engine work, landing gear and brakes, and more useful load.

[Tommooney]

I had a choice of Ovation or Bravo when I bought new in 2003. I went Ovation. I'm good with that looking back 20 years. Having 1070# useful is important to me. I have no AC, FIKI or O2 installed. I did have a few days delay in WA last Xmas due to ice. I'm ok with delays once in while as a trade off. I had no wx delays going to Maine and FL last summer.

Yesterdays flight home from AZ on flightaware:   https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1029M   just lower than usual for winds. Fridays flight over there was at normal 10K'. Speeds about the same just more fuel lower. 

Passengers I fly with, especially wife, don't like wearing O2 up high. 

Good luck.

Tom

[DCarlton]

4 hours ago, philip_g said:

I'd buy a 252 or bravo or O. I really don't love my j and probably wouldn't buy another but that's just me. I don't see the f to j as much of an upgrade to justify the cost and risk

I've had other people tell me the same thing; don't trade a nice F for a J.  At some point, I need to find an opportunity to fly a long body to see how I like it.  If I bought a J I would want to turn it into a pristine J.  And yes I'm intrigued by a Missile as long as there are no hard to find or unusual parts other than the cowling.  

[Parker_Woodruff]

I'm going for an M20S for the useful load.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

If I had a nice F one thing I would not upgrade to is a J.  The J is a wonderful airplane, and it is definitely an improvement over the F, but it’s not enough of an improvement, in my opinion, to justify the transaction costs and risks that would be involved.  You’re going to need either a turbo or six cylinders to make the upgrade meaningful. Either that or just keep what you have, assuming she still meets your needs.  
 

Jim

Why stop at just 6 cylinders, those are for trainers!

Clarence

[Niko182]

I would be between a screaming eagle, an encore, or a missile. All can be had with great useful loads. The power of the missle and the screaming eagle is very nice.

As @Parker_Woodruff stated useful load is very important to me and with the screaming eagle conversion and a full panel exchange i was able to get my useful load up to 1216 pounds. I can easily take 4 people, baggage and a good chunk of fuel. No AC and no tks, have most of what i actually use.

[DCarlton]

3 hours ago, Niko182 said:

I would be between a screaming eagle, an encore, or a missile. All can be had with great useful loads. The power of the missle and the screaming eagle is very nice.

As @Parker_Woodruff stated useful load is very important to me and with the screaming eagle conversion and a full panel exchange i was able to get my useful load up to 1216 pounds. I can easily take 4 people, baggage and a good chunk of fuel. No AC and no tks, have most of what i actually use.

The big difference between the Ovation and Eagle is the weight of the AC?  Didn't realize any Mooney could carry 1200 lbs either.  

[Mcstealth]

1 hour ago, DCarlton said:

The big difference between the Ovation and Eagle is the weight of the AC?  Didn't realize any Mooney could carry 1200 lbs either.  

Not quite accurate I believe. The Eagle had less OEM equipment, less insulation, among other "less" items. Fuel gallons is also restricted I think. 

I am sure someone will fix my errors 

[ZuluZulu]

6 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

I'm going for an M20S for the useful load.

This would be my choice as well, specifically a Screaming Eagle.  (@Niko182 if at some point in the future you guys are ready to sell, keep me in mind... )  I would also love to have the very last of the J breed with an Allegro, but my MSE is already pretty darn close so it'd probably have to be a trade.

[1964-M20E]

The Mooney you have today is better than any Mooney you might have tomorrow.

They always say that buy a plane with the upgrades already done it's cheaper.  However, you have kept your F for 17 years I have had mine for 9 years so far.  My feelings are that if you are going to keep a plane for years it is cheaper to do the upgrades yourself since you can get want you want.  Secondly, for the cost difference of moving up say $75AMU to a nice ovation you can get new paint, sealed tanks, interior maybe sandrec's new cowling and some avionics and still have a plane you know especially if you plan on flying for another 10 years or so.

[Shadrach]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:26 PM, DCarlton said:

I've had other people tell me the same thing; don't trade a nice F for a J.  At some point, I need to find an opportunity to fly a long body to see how I like it.  If I bought a J I would want to turn it into a pristine J.  And yes I'm intrigued by a Missile as long as there are no hard to find or unusual parts other than the cowling.  

Maybe an Encore (I know not eligible because of TC) or an Eagle with the 300hp STC.  Honestly, neither really makes a lot of sense for me.  To see an appreciable (to me) step up and still have a family plane, I would need to go with a different brand twin or oil burning single.  I have a family of four and don't want to give up the (current 1058lbs) useful load.  The extra speed really does not matter much for my missions (usually 300-600NM).  I flew three adults, light bags and fuel for the round trip to Groton CT (just under 300NM) direct on Saturday at 9500ft at ~170KTS GS at peak EGT.  Came home two hours later between 2000 and 3500 making nearly 150KTS GS into a light headwind running 20LOP (according J Garrison, stock Fs don't go this fast in 0 wind). Total round trip distance flown 574NM. Total airtime 3hrs 54mins (block speed of ~147kts).  Total Fuel burned ~43 gals. This included a diversion to do the Hudson Skyline tour.  There are faster, more capable Mooneys that look like a huge upgrade on paper. However, in terms of performance yield for a given input the performance is similar. Some just have the ability to go a bit faster on a lot more gas. For most missions, I think the real world differences from the lowest to the highest powered N/A M20s aren't that huge. The good news is the large displacement birds can be throttled back to near the same speed/efficiency ratio.   If all weather capability is needed, that changes things a bit.  For those of us that don't consider any piston single a prudent all weather option, it does not really matter very much.  There are no low performance Mooneys. Just trade-offs in space, speed, fuel burn and UL.  If you have one the currently works well for your mission, it's probably the right one.  Subjectively, I really like the feel of the lighter airframes. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Shadrach

[larryb]

5 years ago I upgraded from an '84J to '97 FIKI Encore. I wanted more weather capability. I wanted TKS and a turbo. I had grown frustrated with canceled flights in the J that a FIKI plane could make without difficulty. I'm not talking severe ice, merely flights in the winter where you might come across a cloud below freezing. The turbo allows flying at any desired altitude, most long trips are 16K to 17K. 

 

Then came the un-anticipated benefits. The newer plane has more soundproofing and is quieter. The 6 cylinder motor is smoother. No yellow band and vibration on approach that was so annoying in the J. The newer interior is much nicer, no more thin royalite plastic that always cracks.