Engine overhaul

[Browncbr1]

Well, the mounts that were on there were Berry with cure date 1997.  This engine was installed 1998..   all except for the lower right one were fine..  the years of being under an oil leak got to that one I guess.  Given these made it this long, I’ll go with Berry mounts. 

[N201MKTurbo]

4 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

Well, the mounts that were on there were Berry with cure date 1997.  This engine was installed 1998..   all except for the lower right one were fine..  the years of being under an oil leak got to that one I guess.  Given these made it this long, I’ll go with Berry mounts. 

Anything more than 20 years is free time.

[Browncbr1]

I searched up and down about Lord vs Barry mounts.  some people raved about Lords.  A few complained about the gel bushing rupturing.  I want the best, but it seems that there is no conclusive data that one is better than the other, so i elected to go with the Barry and avoid possible silicone bushing leaks after a few years.  a little sagging won't hurt my guppy mouth if that's all that happens... i never noticed any sagging before anyhow.

So, i ordered Barry mounts, a fairly large assortment of flour-silicone adel clamps, a can of enamel paint, some plugs for fuel lines, all new hardware for motor mount at engine and firewall, and new exhaust hardware for joints.  $669

Edit:  I ordered an exchanged overhauled fuel servo from Avstar at $1482 plus $15 shipping.

         Project total to date is $9959

Edited November 19, 2021 by Browncbr1

[skykrawler]

The quote I got from Air Power for a A3B6D factory overhaul was $39.888.00.  The non-D was still $38000+.

 

[Browncbr1]

2 hours ago, skykrawler said:

The quote I got from Air Power for a A3B6D factory overhaul was $39.888.00.  The non-D was still $38000+.

 

Wow!

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, skykrawler said:

The quote I got from Air Power for a A3B6D factory overhaul was $39.888.00.  The non-D was still $38000+.

 

I’d be interested in what a factory reman IO-390 is in comparison.

[Ragsf15e]

5 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

I searched up and down about Lord vs Barry mounts.  some people raved about Lords.  A few complained about the gel bushing rupturing.  I want the best, but it seems that there is no conclusive data that one is better than the other, so i elected to go with the Barry and avoid possible silicone bushing leaks after a few years.  a little sagging won't hurt my guppy mouth if that's all that happens... i never noticed any sagging before anyhow.

So, i ordered Barry mounts, a fairly large assortment of flour-silicone adel clamps, a can of enamel paint, some plugs for fuel lines, all new hardware for motor mount at engine and firewall, and new exhaust hardware for joints.  $669

Project total to date is $8459

Buying all that stuff is the easy part.  Now to the work…

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

Wow!

Go on AirPower and look at the price for a new one!

[amillet]

Air Power current price = $41,472 for A3B6.  2015 price $29,932. 38% increase in 6 years.  More than double the inflation rate 

[skykrawler]

8 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I’d be interested in what a factory reman IO-390 is in comparison.

Just don't forget to add the expense of a new propeller.  Not  compatible.

[Igor_U]

On 11/9/2021 at 7:55 PM, amillet said:

Air Power current price = $41,472 for A3B6.  2015 price $29,932. 38% increase in 6 years.  More than double the inflation rate 

Big price increase happened sometime this summer. I paid less then $35k for my Rebuilt IO360-A1A and now, the price is $38.7! New one is $68k with $17.8 core charge. Crazy!

[Browncbr1]

4 hours ago, Igor_U said:

Big price increase happened sometime this summer. I paid less then $35k for my Rebuilt IO360-A1A and now, the price is $38.7! New one is $68k with $17.8 core charge. Crazy!

Yea, while I was calling around, one person told me that Lycoming had several rounds of increases this year and they are expecting more.  It was not long after that I sent my deposit.

[Browncbr1]

Well, after doing some figuring, there is no way to fit an iPad mini on my right panel at the same time as the jpi..   so I’ve been looking for other tablets that are 7” or less overall..  I came across the Samsung galaxy note with is about 6.4”.  So now, I’m trying to decide how to layout …

any suggestions?   I’ve always kind of liked the jpi up top because it’s easy to see any alert while looking out the window during take off.  I have a moving map at the top of the center stack.  The galaxy note will just be running charts and plates.  Vertical or horizontal format?   

[Skates97]

You would need to move a couple things, but if you moved your CDI up next to the altimeter the EDM830 would fit there on the left side of the panel which is a better spot and also free up room on the right side. That is where I had mine until I switched it out for an EDM900.

When I put the EDM900 in along with the G5's I moved it up to put it more in line of sight.

[Browncbr1]

3 hours ago, Skates97 said:

You would need to move a couple things, but if you moved your CDI up next to the altimeter the EDM830 would fit there on the left side of the panel which is a better spot and also free up room on the right side. That is where I had mine until I switched it out for an EDM900.

When I put the EDM900 in along with the G5's I moved it up to put it more in line of sight.

i had thought of that, but if I get into my left panel, it will be to put the aera660 in vertically there to be my MFD, and move the jpi to the top center stack..   I just don’t want to do anything that’s not flush mount and it seems tight to get that done on the pilot side.  I’m going to go to the hangar next week for more some more measurements.   

Edited November 13, 2021 by Browncbr1

[Browncbr1]

There wasn’t enough room for the Aera on the left side, so I relocated some switches, wiring, and cut the window for the jpi.  I’ll 3D print the bracket and mount later.  
meanwhile, working on the right panel cut. 

[Browncbr1]

Project update:

1. Engine mount and cowl supports have been stripped, cleaned, inspected, zinc'd, primed and painted.

2. The first iteration of 3D print flush mount for the jpi are on the printer now.  I also decided to make a flat bracket on the right panel that will allow my ipad to sit flat on top of the panel in landscape.  This way, I just clip the ipad in and out and not bother with flush mounting new costly electronics.

3. The right panel perimeter and mounting bolt holes are cut.  need to cut the few instrument holes, test fit, clean up and paint.  

4. Previously, I had ordered plastic caps that screw into the fuel line AN fittings to plug the lines while the fuel selector is removed for new seals.  Unfortunately, they don't work, so I procured a HDPE 55gal barrel for $15 to drain the tanks completely.  It will be good to have a barrel at the field for down the road use as well.

5. Exhaust is at the shop for clean up

[Prior owner]

Having recently witnessed a few maintenance nightmares, I feel compelled to give a word of warning to those seeking the “cheapest” overhaul…all engine overhaul shops are not equipped or staffed equally; this means that some may not have the equipment to run the engine in, or re-surface a Vernatherm seat in the case properly,  clean the case properly, check certain tolerances, or countless other small but important items… and “Certified Repair Station” can sometimes mean absolutely nothing in regards to the level of expertise, experience, or caliber of work that produced by a shop. Many Repair Stations don’t even have an A&P on the premises (or on staff)- many avionics shops operate this way, and yet they are installing autopilot systems- removing and installing flight controls, drilling into the airframe, installing brackets, tensioning control wires, etc. Some of these people have no practical training at all when they are hired, and there they are during their third day, assembling flight controls that somebody else took apart, without even knowing how to read a maintenance manual, or even how to access one. It's downright scary.

if you choose to go with a shop that does not provide the break-in run prior to shipping the engine back to you, if problems arise after it is installed, it will have to be removed, shipped round trip again, and re-installed…..and very likely on your dime, as shop installing the engine for you shouldn’t have to eat that time if they didn’t choose the overhaul shop.

if the engine has been run in on the right equipment, you will know that it makes oil pressure, that initial break-in was performed properly, and without having the engine overheat. 

I was working for a shop earlier this year where the owner went with the lowest quote he could find. Now he is staring at a bill that will be higher than the most expensive, premium overhaul shop. And he’ll have nothing to show for it, except an engine from the lowest bidder in the business who could get the job done a month quicker than the next shop. Sometimes there is a good reason why people are waiting line for certain services….

Sometimes we need to step out of the CB clubhouse to get some fresh air, especially with the larger purchases, such as an airplane or an engine overhaul. I’ve witnessed far too much heartache lately.

I think the OP is making some good choices here-  it’s refreshing, and I’m looking forward to watching it all come together nicely. The odds are with him.

 

[201Steve]

4 hours ago, PilotCoyote said:

Having recently witnessed a few maintenance nightmares, I feel compelled to give a word of warning to those seeking the “cheapest” overhaul…all engine overhaul shops are not equipped or staffed equally; this means that some may not have the equipment to run the engine in, or re-surface a Vernatherm seat in the case properly,  clean the case properly, check certain tolerances, or countless other small but important items… and “Certified Repair Station” can sometimes mean absolutely nothing in regards to the level of expertise, experience, or caliber of work that produced by a shop. Many Repair Stations don’t even have an A&P on the premises (or on staff)- many avionics shops operate this way, and yet they are installing autopilot systems- removing and installing flight controls, drilling into the airframe, installing brackets, tensioning control wires, etc. Some of these people have no practical training at all when they are hired, and there they are during their third day, assembling flight controls that somebody else took apart, without even knowing how to read a maintenance manual, or even how to access one. It's downright scary.

if you choose to go with a shop that does not provide the break-in run prior to shipping the engine back to you, if problems arise after it is installed, it will have to be removed, shipped round trip again, and re-installed…..and very likely on your dime, as shop installing the engine for you shouldn’t have to eat that time if they didn’t choose the overhaul shop.

if the engine has been run in on the right equipment, you will know that it makes oil pressure, that initial break-in was performed properly, and without having the engine overheat. 

I was working for a shop earlier this year where the owner went with the lowest quote he could find. Now he is staring at a bill that will be higher than the most expensive, premium overhaul shop. And he’ll have nothing to show for it, except an engine from the lowest bidder in the business who could get the job done a month quicker than the next shop. Sometimes there is a good reason why people are waiting line for certain services….

Sometimes we need to step out of the CB clubhouse to get some fresh air, especially with the larger purchases, such as an airplane or an engine overhaul. I’ve witnessed far too much heartache lately.

I think the OP is making some good choices here-  it’s refreshing, and I’m looking forward to watching it all come together nicely. The odds are with him.

 

As someone going through that nightmare right now, all I can say to that is AMEN BROTHER. PREACH. 

[Browncbr1]

Yes, I heard of one guy who ordered an engine from a shop that ships after the last bolt is put in.   They spent big bucks just trying to figure out what was wrong after reinstalling…. Finally, it turned out that the cam wasn’t properly timed..     a 1 or 2 hour run in with atleast a club prop, if not a dyno is super important in my mind. 
 

also, I forgot to update on the engine

Bill said the engine post tear down looked to be in good shape.  The case is at CSI and the crank, rods, and gears are also at the machine shop awaiting inspection and prep for reassembly.  

Edited November 20, 2021 by Browncbr1

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

Yes, I heard of one guy who ordered an engine from a shop that ships after the last bolt is put in.   They spent big bucks just trying to figure out what was wrong after reinstalling…. Finally, it turned out that the cam wasn’t properly timed..     a 1 or 2 hour run in with atleast a club prop, if not a dyno is super important in my mind. 
 

also, I forgot to update on the engine

Bill said the engine post tear down looked to be in good shape.  The case is at CSI and the crank, rods, and gears are also at the machine shop awaiting inspection and prep for reassembly.  

I once flew an F model with a mis timed camshaft.  If the earth wasn’t curved, it wouldn’t have flown.

Clarence

[N201MKTurbo]

19 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I once flew an F model with a mis timed camshaft.  If the earth wasn’t curved, it wouldn’t have flown.

Clarence

You just have to put the dot between the dots, who can screw that up? But then again, I just haven’t put enough engines together to do that screw up yet.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

You just have to put the dot between the dots, who can screw that up? But then again, I just haven’t put enough engines together to do that screw up yet.

Not done by me, but a well known engine shop at the time.  Strange thing is that it would make RPM, but not a lot of torque.

Clarence

[Mkruger2021]

On 11/3/2021 at 12:35 PM, Browncbr1 said:

that's a good idea... I had used tinnermans to hold them together in the past... 

in any case, I will have help with putting all back together.  I'm going to need it..   Which reminds me...   do you have to bolt the engine mount to the engine first, and then bolt the whole thing to the firewall?   I removed the engine directly from the mount, which was actually pretty difficult to pull off the lower two mounts.  In any case, I am going to have to remove the mount from the firewall in order to remove the lower bolts and rubber pucks.. 

Aircraft Spruce sells a vice lock pliers and an awl specifically made for Adel Clamps. I had to replace all those MF's on the firewall last weekend. I had to drop the oil pan and several explicatives. In the airlines we use saftey wire....But i must say those pliers and awl were fantastic! 

0CB5F942-70AD-48CD-AE31-0D98EDA6B04E.heic

[Browncbr1]

Update:  

I got the JPI reinstalled with 3D print flush mount bracket and bezel.  I may print another bezel that will incorporate a washer for the panel bolt on the top right, just so it doesn’t interfere. 

I rebuilt the fuel selector and reinstalled.  It’s actually pretty easy and I’m glad I did.   It’s only about $20 worth of orings and the orings I removed didn’t look very good.   There was also bunch of grime and some surface corrosion on the shaft.   Now it feels smooth and sure.  
 

I went ahead and swapped the mixture and prop controls back to their original positions because I never liked how tight of a fit the mixture cable had under the engine.  This will give just a little more room to hook back up to the plenum with less effort and put less stress on the clamps.  I noticed the clamps had some stress fractures when I removed them.

I also did a final fit check of the right panel before painting.