Wrong rings installed in cylinder rebuild

[just_nifty]

During an annual inspection, one chrome cylinder was found to be below compression limits. The shop purported to be able and qualified to rebuild it. No test flight or run up was done after reassembly. The plane was returned to me with general guidlines on breaking the cylinder in. After flying a few hours, it was apparent that something was wrong. The belly was oil soaked. Plugs were oil fouled. The shop said I wasn't flying it enough. Oil consumption failed to diminish and I noted a vibration that increasingly worsened. When the cylinder was pulled, it was destroyed beyond salvage and was found to have chrome rings and both vertical and horizontal scoring of the cylinder walls. The oil analysis is showing elevated readings of everything. Does anyone have experience with this situation? Is a tear down necessary to determine crank and bearing involvement or does the elevated levels on the oil analysis suffice to determine the necessity of rebuild?

[GeorgePerry]

If you can prove the shop installed the wrong rings and demonstrated blatant malpractice, I think you have a good argument for a pro-rated overhaul with new cylinders.  The damage they caused resulted in metal shavings contaminating your oil.  Those metal shavings circulated throughout the rest of your engine.  There's likely more damage to other vital components as a result. 

Get the shops insurance involved...I wouldn't fly it again without a reputable Overhaul. 

[jetdriven]

Chrome rings and chrome cylinders are never supposed to be installed together.  Further, what is the piston to wall clearance?

[thinwing]

this is how some mechanics are trained today....thinking chrome cylinder....chrome rings to match....talk about a rock up against a hard spot!!!My opinion...its tear down time....goodluck the shop I am sure has errors and omissions insurance...just be thankful you didnt blow a jug while in IMC...k

[N9937c]

I am CONSTANTLY amazed at the BLUNDERS that certified mechanics make. Yet if a owner /operator even mentions some very simple task to maintain his aircraft, the maintenance Gods will normally suggest that they not undertake even the simplest of tasks.

[xftrplt]

Some mistakes are simply inexcusable:  e.g., long ago, and far away, Pierre ze Fighter Pilot had bombed a hundred bridges.   But one day his Mirage sucked up just one set of chocks.  Was his nom de guerre "Pierre, ze Bridge-Bomber?" Non! He was, forever, "Pierre, ze Chock-Suckair."

Advance apologies to our Francophones. 

[Shadrach]

Quote: N9937c

I am CONSTANTLY amazed at the BLUNDERS that certified mechanics make. Yet if a owner /operator even mentions some very simple task to maintain his aircraft, the maintenance Gods will normally suggest that they not undertake even the simplest of tasks.

[just_nifty]

Yes, I understand that chrome/chrome is never supposed to be together. Dissimilar metals are needed to facilitate wear/break-in. Yes, I can prove the error. The shop listed the part numbers on the invoice to me which I compared to Lycoming's parts list for the engine. Yes, I have photos. Shop won't release insurance info. That leads me to believe they have none. The airport is state owned and, according to the lease agreement on the hangar in which he operates, he is to have commercial insurance however, the state won't release the info either. It's a joke. A very expensive joke. On me. I am getting recommendations for tear down and also that I should just do oil anaylsis for 10 to 20 flight hours to see if contamination lessens. The only problem I have with that is having an "issue" in flight during this look-and-see time period. I feel that I am quite fortunate to be here at all given the damage to the cylinder. Another question: The damaged cylinder has been replaced with a nitride steel so the engine now has 3 chromes, 1 nitride. Anyone else out there have mis-matched barrels and, if so, does it create any other problems?

[jetdriven]

According to an article from coy Jacobs, chrome cylinders do not work on a lycomong 360 on a mooney.  

[jetdriven]

Ross you need to understand that safety = money, and the more you spend the safer you are.  Your family rides in this thing and you need to understand you can't just cheap out on maintenance, you need to goto the white floor jet shop for 105$ an hour.    

Quote: Shadrach

 These are the kind of incidences that motivate people to take an active role in the maintenance of their planes.  I have seen mx that ranges from merely substandard to dangerous. At least this revealed itself with gradualy worsening symptoms; some issues do not reveal themselves until failure.  You don't know what you don't know until you take a look. Of course, if you were a real piloot, that flew a real airplane like a Bravo or an Ovation you'd probably be able to get good MX.

[jetdriven]

First take that invoice and photos to the FSDO them call a lawyer.   Before they kill someone.  

Quote: just_nifty

Yes, I understand that chrome/chrome is never supposed to be together. Dissimilar metals are needed to facilitate wear/break-in. Yes, I can prove the error. The shop listed the part numbers on the invoice to me which I compared to Lycoming's parts list for the engine. Yes, I have photos. Shop won't release insurance info. That leads me to believe they have none. The airport is state owned and, according to the lease agreement on the hangar in which he operates, he is to have commercial insurance however, the state won't release the info either. It's a joke. A very expensive joke. On me. I am getting recommendations for tear down and also that I should just do oil anaylsis for 10 to 20 flight hours to see if contamination lessens. The only problem I have with that is having an "issue" in flight during this look-and-see time period. I feel that I am quite fortunate to be here at all given the damage to the cylinder. Another question: The damaged cylinder has been replaced with a nitride steel so the engine now has 3 chromes, 1 nitride. Anyone else out there have mis-matched barrels and, if so, does it create any other problems?

[just_nifty]

Yes, did that too...The FSDO is investigating but, apparently, doesn't think the shop owner is responsible even though he personally ordered the incorrect parts. In speaking with attorneys, it doesn't involve enough money for them to be interested. Not many lawyers with aviation experience around here. It seems to me that a shop owner who purports himself to be qualified to perform annuals and advertises such should not be able to conduct business. This shop owner claims to have an IA on his "staff" and so meets FAA regulations.

[just_nifty]

Quote: jetdriven

According to an article from coy Jacobs, chrome cylinders do not work on a lycomong 360 on a mooney.  

[jetdriven]

Chrome cylinders also can refuse to break in requiring them to be removed and re-honed a few times. 

Here is the link.    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CHQQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moapilot.com%2Fpdf%2FJuly05%2FJuly05ALL.pdf&ei=dqHeTojZKIPx0gGx6YyjBw&usg=AFQjCNHIM8Gh71jdVpdFKVhVlUwUKtC1y

 

I wasn't aware that Lycoming shipped chrome cylinders on an angle-valve IO-360. Nitrided steel is the only way to get them new. Chrome was an aftermarket process during a rework or overhaul of the cylinder. I could be wrong.

[jetdriven]

Whoever is responsible is who signed off the work.

Quote: just_nifty

Yes, did that too...The FSDO is investigating but, apparently, doesn't think the shop owner is responsible even though he personally ordered the incorrect parts. In speaking with attorneys, it doesn't involve enough money for them to be interested. Not many lawyers with aviation experience around here. It seems to me that a shop owner who purports himself to be qualified to perform annuals and advertises such should not be able to conduct business. This shop owner claims to have an IA on his "staff" and so meets FAA regulations.

[just_nifty]

Byron, I believe that part of this issue is due to the complexity. First of all, the shop owner solicited the annual from me stating he was qualified to perform annuals. During the annual, he is working on the plane but so is an "employee" who is an AP and signs off the 100 hr. The shop owner collects the $$$ for the annual. On reviewing the log books, a third person, an IA, has signed off the annual however, I am later told that the IA never looked at the plane and came in only to sign the book. I have learned much from this experience: Trust nobody. Demand proof. It just seems as though there should be some regulation somewhere preventing this type of convoluted occurance. A shop owner purports to be what the aren't and pays an IA to sign books but doesn't actually check the work done - all the while, the plane owner knows nothing of what's going on because they believe the business to be viable - in all of those kazillions of regulations, you'd think there was at least one covering this????

[just_nifty]

Regarding the chome cylinders - the problem wasn't the cylinders. The other cylinders were fine other than the one that had low compression. The problem was the installation of chrome rings in a chrome cylinder. Rings couldn't possibly seat. As I said, Lycoming's part list for chrome barrels was totally different than the parts installed. However, that same list matches numbers for rings to be installed in nitride barrels. My question remains the same though. Has anyone come across any recommendation from Lycoming when this happens? Has anyone experienced this and what was the outcome?

[jetdriven]

I don't think lycoming sells chrome cylinders for an io-360.   Only nitrided steel.   

[N601RX]

You only need an A&P to install the cylinder.  An IA is not needed.  The cylinder replacement should be a seperate item.  Whoever signed the entry in the log for the cylinder replacement is responsible.  If it is included in the same entry as the annual then the IA who signed off on the work is responsible even if he did not physically do the work.

[just_nifty]

Mike, do you happen to know which FAR substantiates responsibility? I did a search but couldn't find it. The logbook shows the 100 hr, with the cylinder replacement, signed by the AP. The next entry is "annual performed" verbage signed by the IA. Any ideas on that?

[N601RX]

Then the A&P is responsible.  Is this the same person as the shop owner?  If their not the same person then the shop owner has some liability also.

Read 43.5 through 43.11.   Especially 43.9 (3)