FAA Over Reach?

[aviatoreb]

40 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

If I still worked there I could root around on the network and see if I could find the FMEA on the thing. I’m sure they identified ways for a false negative. But if a technician just accidentally touches the liquid from a positive vial, they could contaminate hundreds of vials.

I figured - as I said - humans in the loop make zero false negative rate not possible in the actual test process in the field / in any test of any kind deployed in the field with their hands on the problem.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

There is no such thing as zero false negative.  In anything, in any science.  But for sure, there are very low false negative rates.

Yup.  Any detector with imperfect or impaired measurements (i.e., anything) has some probably of false alarm and some probability of missed detection (false negative).   One may be much, much bigger than the other, and one may be very, very small, but they're never zero.   Some people characterize "as close to zero as makes no difference", which may be practical, but it's not zero.    If the electronics weren't at zero Kelvin there's always thermal noise, at least. 

[ragedracer1977]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

...yeah - only testing isn't just for the person being tested.  Not at all.  It's for those around the person and so for the contact tracing.  Its not just about treating an individual.  It for managing and diminishing a public health crisis.  This misunderstanding is why we had >1300 deaths today and Germany had 4.

Yeah, I mean Germany is a good direct comparison to the US.  Same population, same demographics, same landmass.  Oh, wait.  

if I catch it, testing me doesn’t help slow the spread.  By the time I’m noticeably sick enough to want to get tested, the 6 people I could possibly have infected will probably already be infected.  
 

when I found out I was exposed (IIRC it was just a few hours post exposure that I got a call I might have been) I isolated myself as much as possible for 14 days.  Being tested positive wouldn’t have changed a thing.

 

[jaylw314]

4 hours ago, bradp said:

Definitely possible false negative.  More needs to be learned about duration and effectiveness of antibody responses.
 

Timing of the swab counts- the positivity peaks just before or at the onset of symptoms and can decline sharply afterward.  Conversely, people can be PCR positive but not have virus that can be “passaged” through cells - the inference is that the virus isn’t competent to replicate at that point and the person is no longer considered to be infectious (for people with normal immune systems and aren’t/weren’t critically ill, after 10days since symptoms onset there’s about 12% of folks with competent virus and by 15 days that drops to 5%).  
 

Testing platform characteristics are also variable. We have one of the better performing test platforms gets down to about 150 copies / mL.  The poorer performing platforms will miss people at the beginning (matters) and end (maybe doesn’t matter as much), of their illness course.  The testing platform that lab Corp and quest are using detects about 10x less virus than the one we’re using. Contamination of reagents has been an issue with many of the failed swabs (bad reagents = false positive).  Wrong swabs / environmental issues = false negative (sample degradation and PCR inhibitors) The qc for clinical labs is a pretty high standard.  Same standard for other PCR based testing. Negative controls are crucial.    There’s a lot of PCR based testing in micro labs these days. 
 

All that is true about PCR and the nuances of testing, but all this is data about the quality of the test, not the quality of the test RESULT.  As individuals, we don't give a crap about the test, it's the result that's important.  If anyone is interested in reading up on it, I'm talking about the positive predictive value and negative predictive values, which are FAR more dependent on the prevalence of the disease than the quality of the test.  If a disease is very common, you could have a crappy test and you would still have a low false positive rate.  Conversely, if the disease is uncommon, even a fantastic test will have a high false positive rate.  To this point, the number of people who have gotten COVID-19 is still probably less than 5% of the population, so even a very good test will have a poor false positive rate.  The CDC last month estimated the positive predictive value to be around 50%.  So if you were asymptomatic and tested positive, there was a 50% chance the positive result was wrong, even though if you test people you know are healthy, only 0.1% (my guess) of people get a false positive.

Conversely, since COVID-19 is still probably uncommon enough that a NEGATIVE result is almost certainly correct.  Even if the test was so crappy that it gave you a false negative in 20% of the people who you know have the disease, if the disease is uncommon enough, a negative result might have only a 0.1% chance of being a false negative.

The upshot of all this:

• The quality of the test is not very important in how reliable any one person's result is.  If the disease is rare, it won't matter.  Once it's common enough, it won't matter because we'll treat everyone like they have it anyway.
• Right now, for any one person, a NEGATIVE result is very reliable, but a POSITIVE result is probably not.  As the disease spreads, the positive result will become more and more reliable, but less useful since more people will have it anyway
• Even though the quality of the test results might be poor for the individual, the quality of the test IS helpful as a proxy for measuring the spread of the disease across a population.  Although a positive result for one person might not be reliable, the NUMBER of positive results in a population is likely to be correct as a sign of how the disease is changing.

 

[Missile=Awesome]

10 hours ago, bradp said:

I like the repair shop analogy Rich.
 

Just modify it slightly. You have little steam of oil leaking.  You don’t even notice it.  In fact It seals itself off such that you don’t have any issues with your car.  Some people notice and go to the shop, some people don’t. 
 

However the car behind you and maybe a few others following your path lose traction and go careening off the road and crash.  The old guy with bad maintenance and old tires - man forget about it.  Maybe you knew about the slippery fluid leak and didn’t think much of it, or maybe you had no idea and go merrily about your way.  

I don’t think of myself as working in a Covid hospital - just a regular old regional medical center.  It’s the same across the US - most hospitals big and small, urban and rural, are affected.  

It’s amazing we have to debate the seriousness of taking on a minimal personal inconvenience to protect other American’s health and well being in this day and age.  I consider mask wearing out and about the most patriotic thing I can do save showing up for work.  
 

Back to the OP topic - I’d ignore it unless it came up somehow on my next medical.  

ABSOLUTELY NOT trying to be provocative, but I have a physician friend that says 100% the opposite...in that “Covid 19 is HIGHLY politicized and he and other professionals have been muzzled and risk their careers by speaking out”...So while you feel “Patriotic” by wearing your mask”...Many others (not saying they are “right”)...feel exactly the same by NOT. (Wearing a mask)...It is a damn shame that Covid 19 has been politicized, but brother, IT HAS.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Missile=Awesome

[aviatoreb]

10 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Yeah, I mean Germany is a good direct comparison to the US.  Same population, same demographics, same landmass.  Oh, wait.  

 

Oh wait - you are right - its irrelevant to compare anything to anything because nothing is identical.  Thanks for clearing that up.

Well just doing some irrelevant arithmetic for an irrelevant fun but not a comparison.  The USA has a population of   328.2M and had 1462 deaths yesterday from the worldometer source I just looked.  Germany has 83.02M population and 3 deaths yesterday.  In ratios -

USA - 1462/328.2M=4.4546e-06 deaths yesterday per person population.  

Germany - 3/83020000=3.6136e-08 deaths yesterday per person population.

Which is roughly 100 times greater in the USA.  And growing.  If we discuss Italy, its comparable in contrast outcome.

And Germany has a higher population density per square mile than the USA 603 persons/ sq mi^2 vs 92.9/sq mi^2 which if you are arguing something about land mass then maybe that suggests it should lean better in the usa not worse.

>if I catch it, testing me doesn’t help slow the spread.  By the time I’m noticeably sick enough to want to get tested, the 6 people I could possibly have infected will probably already be infected.  when I found out I was exposed (IIRC it was just a few hours post exposure that I got a call I might have been) I isolated myself as much as possible for 14 days.  Being tested positive wouldn’t have changed a thing.

Again - I understand that yes you don't want to be tested if you aren't terribly sick, and there are structural benefits to not be tested.  So on a personal basis it is a benefit to you to not be tested.  If you get sick and just hunker down on your own and heal then no harm no foul.  I agree and I get that.

That does not change that for a population reason, for a public health reason, there is utility in identifying those who are positive for reasons of contact tracing.  If you are sick and you become known to the public health officials then they can do contact tracing and find out who you were in contact with and notify them, test them, isolate them, possibly contact trace who they were in contact with if they test positive, and stop this thing from spreading. Stopping this thing without a vaccine, or without quarantining the entire population simultaneously like was done in March, involves contact tracing and contact tracing involves testing.  Again, not referring to what is best for me, me, me, but if I want to declare that I can get sick and opt out of that system and no matter its not relevant where I got it from, that is something I/me can get away with but that does not change what is the right way to approach something like this from the public benefit and the concept of public health management.

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by aviatoreb

[KLRDMD]

6 hours ago, Missile=Awesome said:

ABSOLUTELY NOT trying to be provocative, but I have a physician friend that says 100% the opposite...in that “Covid 19 is HIGHLY politicized and he and other professionals have been muzzled and risk their careers by speaking out”...So while you feel “Patriotic” by wearing your mask”...Many others (not saying they are “right”)...feel exactly the same by NOT. (Wearing a mask)...It is a damn shame that Covid 19 has been politicized, but brother, IT HAS.

Who wants to bet that after the election COVID magically and suddenly won't be a thing anymore???

[aviatoreb]

17 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

Who wants to bet that after the election COVID magically and suddenly won't be a thing anymore???

Somehow people in other countries around this Earth are worrying about CV19.  I wonder if 700,000 people so far dead did all that because of the US election?

[Missile=Awesome]

18 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Somehow people in other countries around this Earth are worrying about CV19.  I wonder if 700,000 people so far dead did all that because of the US election?

So my interpretation of your remark is Europe feels “bad” and USA doesn’t. Binary choice?  Can I feel bad, wear a mask and socially distance AND want schools and businesses to resume commerce as millions are being financially devastated and the debt to future generations amplified?

[Missile=Awesome]

[steingar]

Once vaccines are widely available the ‘rona won’t be a thing anymore. Until then it will. The person in charge could treat it responsibly, listen to medical and scientific professionals, and appear to the public wearing a mask and practicing social distancing. The POTUS has a huge bully pulpit which can do immeasurable good if used responsibly.

 

[bradp]

Over and over again the economists are telling us that to get the economy backup and running we need public health control.  Can’t do it in reverse.  Can’t wish out economic woes out of this one and stick our heads in the sand.  I’m not sure where people arguing let’s open up fully and that will get the economy going again.  Tried that after Memorial Day.  It doesn’t work.  It’s been proved. 
 

Push through, protect our fellow citizens by listening to public health official, and try to repair the economic damage methodically.  Start by listening. 

[Missile=Awesome]

CDC head said open schools, children need to be in classroom. I was listening to that. Social distance. Heard that. Masks better than nothing. Heard that. What else do I need to listen to?  Teachers unions?  

[aviatoreb]

12 minutes ago, Missile=Awesome said:

CDC head said open schools, children need to be in classroom. I was listening to that. Social distance. Heard that. Masks better than nothing. Heard that. What else do I need to listen to?  Teachers unions?  

Missile I see you are new to Mooney space, joined July 7 and 99 posts.  I see you have a strong opinion as many of us do.  Many of us over time have learned to tone it down just a notch and it keeps us flying along together sharing our small cabin through strong differences of opinion but a commonality at the same time.  This forum is quite different than facebook, twitter, and slow twitch and others I used to be on and got off, and I think we have done a great job of keeping a common respect for each other.  Welcome to Mooneyspace and I look forward to learn more about your interests, skills, knowledge and opinions.

signed with my name, as all posts,

Erik Bollt

[ZuluZulu]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

Missile I see you are new to Mooney space, joined July 7 and 99 posts.  I see you have a strong opinion as many of us do.  Many of us over time have learned to tone it down just a notch and it keeps us flying along together sharing our small cabin through strong differences of opinion but a commonality at the same time.  This forum is quite different than facebook, twitter, and slow twitch and others I used to be on and got off, and I think we have done a great job of keeping a common respect for each other.  Welcome to Mooneyspace and I look forward to learn more about your interests, skills, knowledge and opinions.

signed with my name, as all posts,

Erik Bollt

Not exactly...

On 7/7/2020 at 9:03 AM, Missile=Awesome said:

After being banished for an indefinite period for responding Wimp when poster said “call me a wimp”...(neglected to put smiley face after) and being told by Administrator “You will just get another email like you have done before” I have, after months, decided to do just that.

1. I will keep my comments here and only here.

2. I will continue to emote ONLY on other threads so I can not be construed as personally attacking another member.

3. My Name is Nobody, ScottFromIowa, Rogue and now Missile=Awesome is “back”.

4. PM me if you wish to dialogue. Otherwise I will remain compartmentalized here so Mooneyspace remains civil.

5. I would of continued to emote, but not being able to respond to PM’s was not a good feeling...(Blame “those guys” Mooneyspacers...

 

[aviatoreb]

16 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

Not exactly...

 

true - true. But I do feel like we do a better job than any other online forum, other than maybe beech talk, than I have seen.  So I will say we try.  I try.  I fail sometimes - fully admit. But I do check myself usually and I try.

[Missile=Awesome]

40 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Missile I see you are new to Mooney space, joined July 7 and 99 posts.  I see you have a strong opinion as many of us do.  Many of us over time have learned to tone it down just a notch and it keeps us flying along together sharing our small cabin through strong differences of opinion but a commonality at the same time.  This forum is quite different than facebook, twitter, and slow twitch and others I used to be on and got off, and I think we have done a great job of keeping a common respect for each other.  Welcome to Mooneyspace and I look forward to learn more about your interests, skills, knowledge and opinions.

signed with my name, as all posts,

Erik Bollt

Sigh. Very effective what you do Erik..  Seeing and listening. Interesting that I receive your words    Thank you so much. Consider me muzzled.. Carry on with your fun here. 
 

What me worry

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Missile=Awesome

[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

Over and over again the economists are telling us that to get the economy backup and running we need public health control.  Can’t do it in reverse.  Can’t wish out economic woes out of this one and stick our heads in the sand.  I’m not sure where people arguing let’s open up fully and that will get the economy going again.  Tried that after Memorial Day.  It doesn’t work.  It’s been proved. 
 

Push through, protect our fellow citizens by listening to public health official, and try to repair the economic damage methodically.  Start by listening. 

I was trying to just listen by reading these posts and yours made me want to comment. We’ve been listening to the health professionals for months now telling us something different every day. When we do our research and read what the health experts are saying and voice that, we get shouted down that you don’t know what you’re taking about because you’re not in the health field. 
This is not the way for us to Listen as you put it. Many of us have tuned out the so called experts and are moving on with living over worrying about dying which we all will do some day.

The latest the experts are telling us that we should consider wearing goggles. How long before we’re all required to wear hazmat suits when we want to go out? I have to wonder if they all have weekly meetings to see what else can be dreamed up to throw at us and see what sticks. 

I must be doing something right in the fact that we’ve managed to not bring any virus home to my mother in law who’s 89 and lives with us. The only thing my wife and I do every time we come home is wash our hands. We don’t get overly concerned and freaked out if someone gets within our 6 foot bubble. We also only wear masks entering a business that requires it. Usually my mask is protecting my chin from getting the virus.

I’ll go back to listening now and help keep this forum Mooney friendly. 
 

David

Edited August 1, 2020 by Sabremech

[Hank]

13 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

I was trying to just listen by reading these posts and yours made me want to comment. We’ve been listening to the health professionals for months now telling us something different every day. When we do our research and read what the health experts are saying and voice that, we get shouted down that you don’t know what you’re taking about because you’re not in the health field. 
This is not the way for us to Listen as you put it. Many of us have tuned out the so called experts and are moving on with living over worrying about dying which we all will do some day.

The latest the experts are telling us that we should consider wearing goggles. How long before we’re all required to wear hazmat suits when we want to go out? I have to wonder if they all have weekly meetings to see what else can be dreamed up to throw at us and see what sticks. 

I must be doing something right in the fact that we’ve managed to not bring any virus home to my mother in law who’s 89 and lives with us. The only thing my wife and I do every time we come home is wash our hands. We don’t get overly concerned and freaked out if someone gets within our 6 foot bubble. We also only wear masks entering a business that requires it. Usually my mask is protecting my chin from getting the virus.

I’ll go back to listening now and help keep this forum Mooney friendly. 
 

David

While I agree that we hear frequently conflicting "advice" from doctors "who know best," we don't wear masks made from two layers of cotton with no seal against our faces to protect ourselves. The mask I wear protects people around me, in the unlikely event that I am contagious; the mask on your chin protects noone.

I wear a mask at work (cotton mask everywhere, surgical mask in the cleanroom), and a mask most places that I go (none of the masks protect me), work checks everyone's temperature coming in the door. Wash hands a lot, sanitize after coughing and eating. Live normally. 

All coworkers who have been symptomatic have been exposed at their homes from extended family (brothers, cousins, etc., who were visiting). 

Live your life, wash hands a little more often. 

I'd say it's time to go fly our Mooneys, but the afternoon thunderstorm is almost over . . . .

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Missile=Awesome said:

Sigh. Very effective what you do Erik..  Seeing and listening. Interesting that I receive your words    Thank you so much. Consider me muzzled.. Carry on with your fun here. 
 

What me worry

 

 

 

I think your beer is spilling!  :-)

[bradp]

1 hour ago, Sabremech said:

I was trying to just listen by reading these posts and yours made me want to comment. We’ve been listening to the health professionals for months now telling us something different every day. When we do our research and read what the health experts are saying and voice that, we get shouted down that you don’t know what you’re taking about because you’re not in the health field. 
This is not the way for us to Listen as you put it. Many of us have tuned out the so called experts and are moving on with living over worrying about dying which we all will do some day.

The latest the experts are telling us that we should consider wearing goggles. How long before we’re all required to wear hazmat suits when we want to go out? I have to wonder if they all have weekly meetings to see what else can be dreamed up to throw at us and see what sticks. 

I must be doing something right in the fact that we’ve managed to not bring any virus home to my mother in law who’s 89 and lives with us. The only thing my wife and I do every time we come home is wash our hands. We don’t get overly concerned and freaked out if someone gets within our 6 foot bubble. We also only wear masks entering a business that requires it. Usually my mask is protecting my chin from getting the virus.

I’ll go back to listening now and help keep this forum Mooney friendly. 
 

David

David I’m glad you’ve been able to keep the virus away.
 

Clearly is a moving target.  Even countries that have been more successful have had to change strategy as information is assimilated and the situation evolves.  Came from knowing nothing about it to knowing something.  
 

Unfortunately all the political bs has gotten in the way of the public health response. Wash hands, wear mask for others in case you’re an asymptomatic carrier, distance. Keep life as normal as possible otherwise.  Rinse and repeat.  That’s it.
 

All the public health messaging failed over and over again. Won’t get into that but the CDC kept moving the target as a political apparatus responding to what resources were available at the time (PPE shortages) and kept moving the goal posts for the public and allowed the hospitals to do whatever was practical rather than what was proper from apparent political reasons.   Hospitals are still doing it with the PPE and isolation dance.  Hospitals are still trying to min staff and profit off the backs of the workers and bailouts. Look at HCAs quarterly earnings. Its disgusting.  The only reason the CDC said “no masks” and tried to give all sorts of bull $hit explanations was because we didn’t have enough masks.  They could have said “masks would really help, make sense and have been used successfully in other parts of the world, but we ain’t got none” but they just make up a bunch of politically expedient doublespeak instead.  That approach is infectious and cancerous in of itself.
 

This thing keeps hitting close to home.  Yesterday- admin said she was at a family party (not a good idea).  Everyone got it except her.   Her daughter’s MIL is on a vent.  That means she’s 50/50 in the door to the ICU for survival.   Today - my neighbor (doc) posted about his residency mentor dying the other day from it.  Kinda close to home.  Today I try to message a local pediatrician about a patient - he’s out with it with 22 days of symptoms, his wife heading to the ED being admitted with it.  Every day there are new stories. Maybe we’d do better if we just focused locally.  Put our covid numbers and mortality rate on a big electronic billboard and put them online. Live unfiltered data.  But nope, the covid update email I get each evening is marked “confidential and not for distribution”. 
 

These are the healthcare workers trying to help folks who couldn’t help themselves and are getting taken down.  And taking their families down.  If you don’t wear a mask, the healthcare workers will still take care of you. Might keep putting them at risk.   But it speaks volumes that people won’t just wear a simple f-ing mask even if it might prevent a single infection. Or not. But there might be an increased chance of helping and avoiding harm.  So just do it. Please.  Look my kids can wear a mask.  
 

And yes face shields help too.  That’s what we’re wearing in the hospital.  Just pretend you’re on a very long woodworking project. :-) 

[cliffy]

As I said before- At some point someone is going to have to say  that X number of deaths per year due to COVID is an acceptable number for the world to go back to normal operation.

There will ALWAYS be deaths due to this disease even with a vaccine. It will never completely go away (just like ebola is still around). People die of the Flu every year and we accept a certain number of deaths every year from that and we just go on with our lives.  20,000 to 60,000 die of the flu. What number of deaths from COVID will be acceptable? 

Pick a number because it will always be with us from now on. 

At some point the world will have to move on and accept the inevitable - people die from a variety of reasons. COVID is just one of them. 

[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

David I’m glad you’ve been able to keep the virus away.
 

Clearly is a moving target.  Even countries that have been more successful have had to change strategy as information is assimilated and the situation evolves.  Came from knowing nothing about it to knowing something.  
 

Unfortunately all the political bs has gotten in the way of the public health response. Wash hands, wear mask for others in case you’re an asymptomatic carrier, distance. Keep life as normal as possible otherwise.  Rinse and repeat.  That’s it.
 

All the public health messaging failed over and over again. Won’t get into that but the CDC kept moving the target as a political apparatus responding to what resources were available at the time (PPE shortages) and kept moving the goal posts for the public and allowed the hospitals to do whatever was practical rather than what was proper from apparent political reasons.   Hospitals are still doing it with the PPE and isolation dance.  Hospitals are still trying to min staff and profit off the backs of the workers and bailouts. Look at HCAs quarterly earnings. Its disgusting.  The only reason the CDC said “no masks” and tried to give all sorts of bull $hit explanations was because we didn’t have enough masks.  They could have said “masks would really help, make sense and have been used successfully in other parts of the world, but we ain’t got none” but they just make up a bunch of politically expedient doublespeak instead.  That approach is infectious and cancerous in of itself.
 

This thing keeps hitting close to home.  Yesterday- admin said she was at a family party (not a good idea).  Everyone got it except her.   Her daughter’s MIL is on a vent.  That means she’s 50/50 in the door to the ICU for survival.   Today - my neighbor (doc) posted about his residency mentor dying the other day from it.  Kinda close to home.  Today I try to message a local pediatrician about a patient - he’s out with it with 22 days of symptoms, his wife heading to the ED being admitted with it.  Every day there are new stories. Maybe we’d do better if we just focused locally.  Put our covid numbers and mortality rate on a big electronic billboard and put them online. Live unfiltered data.  But nope, the covid update email I get each evening is marked “confidential and not for distribution”. 
 

These are the healthcare workers trying to help folks who couldn’t help themselves and are getting taken down.  And taking their families down.  If you don’t wear a mask, the healthcare workers will still take care of you. Might keep putting them at risk.   But it speaks volumes that people won’t just wear a simple f-ing mask even if it might prevent a single infection. Or not. But there might be an increased chance of helping and avoiding harm.  So just do it. Please.  Look my kids can wear a mask.  
 

And yes face shields help too.  That’s what we’re wearing in the hospital.  Just pretend you’re on a very long woodworking project. :-) 

You were doing well until you went off on the mask rant. Sorry, but you sound just like the rest of the experts now and we’re all dummy’s. 
You need to work harder on your message delivery and not come off as I’m right and you’re wrong. 

I’ll leave it at this. Like it or not, it is how we feel and no amount of chastising is going to change our minds. We too have had family impacted by the virus, so that angle is covered in case you move on to the guilt and shaming next. 
David

[bradp]

8 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

You were doing well until you went off on the mask rant. Sorry, but you sound just like the rest of the experts now and we’re all dummy’s. 
You need to work harder on your message delivery and not come off as I’m right and you’re wrong. 

I’ll leave it at this. Like it or not, it is how we feel and no amount of chastising is going to change our minds. We too have had family impacted by the virus, so that angle is covered in case you move on to the guilt and shaming next. 
David

There a difference between chastising and pleading. This is pleading. 

[ragedracer1977]

34 minutes ago, bradp said:

There a difference between chastising and pleading. This is pleading. 

I wear a mask inside private businesses that ask me to, because it’s their right. I still spend more time “worrying” about distancing. I don’t wear one anywhere else.

instead, I distance myself.  Nearly every story of infection I’ve read lately start with “I was wearing a mask and gloves and was doing everything by the guidelines”.  It’s my non-professional opinion that people are being careless because they have “protection”. They don’t worry about distancing, they touch their face 10 times more than people without masks (I’ve witnessed this consistently every place I’ve been).  I think some people are getting infected because of the masks.

I've personally decided to just live my life. I’m going to die someday.  If this is what does it, this is what does it.  I’m not going out of my way to catch it, and am actively trying to avoid it, as I do with ALL contagious disease.  Thing is, it’s here forever.  It’s probably not going to just disappear one day.  Eventually everyone will just become comfortable with the knowledge that a certain number of people will die of it every year. 

I’m just tired of the politicos and medical folks lecturing/pleading/chastising all the while I can still go buy a pack of smokes, a 12 pack of beer, and a triple bacon cheeseburger with extra greasy fries.  They don’t care about saving lives, not really.  If they did, we’d be actually banning things that save orders of magnitudes more lives, rather than condemning people going to Sunday church service.