VFR Flying

[Bryan]

I have a regulatory question I have been pondering recently. I fly a lot of IFR so these questions not really pertain unless I am VFR only.

Northwest Arkansas is a good example of the situation I am asking about. 

Scenario: I am flying into Bentonville airport from the East VFR. Bentonville (VBT) is an uncontrolled non-towered airport under a Class C shelf in which the C is controlled by [Razorback Approach]. Incoming to this area, I call up Razorback Approach and state my intentions to land at VBT and get a response with a discreet squawk. Because I have a working Mode C and in communication, I can enter the Class C; great!

Now to complicate the process, and related to my question; there are  two Class D airspaces very near this area.

Can I enter those airspace’s without contacting “their” towers or am I covered from Razorback Approach control?  I am not talking about entering those spaces near the runway but in order to make my VFR decent to landing at VBT, I will need to clip their airspace.

Today I just VFR around them as I know it is the safest but want to know if I can go thru them according to the regulations?

[DXB]

31 minutes ago, Bryan said:

I have a regulatory question I have been pondering recently. I fly a lot of IFR so these questions not really pertain unless I am VFR only.

Northwest Arkansas is a good example of the situation I am asking about. 

Scenario: I am flying into Bentonville airport from the East VFR. Bentonville (VBT) is an uncontrolled non-towered airport under a Class C shelf in which the C is controlled by [Razorback Approach]. Incoming to this area, I call up Razorback Approach and state my intentions to land at VBT and get a response with a discreet squawk. Because I have a working Mode C and in communication, I can enter the Class C; great!

Now to complicate the process, and related to my question; there are  two Class D airspaces very near this area.

Can I enter those airspace’s without contacting “their” towers or am I covered from Razorback Approach control?  I am not talking about entering those spaces near the runway but in order to make my VFR decent to landing at VBT, I will need to clip their airspace.

Today I just VFR around them as I know it is the safest but want to know if I can go thru them according to the regulations?

In my experience, there are some deltas where an overlying C controller can clear you through as vfr traffic, and some where they will not and you will have to talk to the delta tower.  Either way, you cannot assume you can enter those deltas just because you are talking to the overlying C controller.  Best just to ask the C controller.

[StevenL757]

Agree.  The "C" controller will generally tell you whether you need to "remain clear of xxxxx airport Class D (one or both airports, in your example)", or not.  Whether you're landing at the "C" airport or just traversing it, best to stay clear of both "D" airports' space unless given guidance to the contrary.  If in doubt or no guidance is given, ask the "C" controller for clarity.

Steve

[Skates97]

I don't know the regulation, I would second what DBX and Steven said and if just ask "Am I cleared through xxx?" Always when in doubt ask.

My experience has been that I can fly through the Class C when on VFR Flight following but the Class D they either tell me to stay clear or hand me off. In the Phoenix area going into or departing KIWA they will tell me to remain clear of the Class D at KCHD. Coming back into SoCal when I was at KAJO I would be on descent and they would let me go into the Class C of March ARB (KRIV) airspace but restrict me at or above 4,500' until past the runways. Sometimes they would hand me off to the tower at KRIV but most of the time they just kept me on their frequency. Now based at KFUL they will let me descend into KONT's Class C airspace but hold me above the Class D at KCNO until I am past it. 

[thinwing]

Similar situation.Approaching from the south and landing at Rio Linda ,NorCal sector frequency 125.25 will typically hold you at 2500 for ksac or 2600 for Mather taking you over the top of their class D if not landing.In your situation ,if you have not contacted approach on sector frequency before entering those Class D ,Than its contact tower for transition.

[thinwing]

Now look at pvt Borges Clarksburg inside KSAC class D.Tower frequency is used to land at this airstrip.

[N201MKTurbo]

Call the TRACON on the phone and discuss it with them.

It seems to me that you should descend, call Rogers tower for transition through their class D and then call Bentonville without ever calling approach. 

[KB4]

Agreed with all.  Those small areas near ASG / RZC-VOR where the Charlie and Delta overlap blocks 2500-3900 and 2900-3900--When approached cleared you into the Charlie you ARE cleared into those altitude blocks where the overlap occurs if from your present position your flight path takes you there while you are under approach control.  He sees your track and knows.  Those altitude blocks (where Charlie and Delta overlap) are controlled by Approach and not the Delta's tower.   

Loose example.  After all the codes, and ID's, Approach says "fly direct present position Razorback VOR maintain 4500"   Am I cleared into the C?  She never said I'm cleared into the Charlie airspace, BUT I cannot get to the RZC VOR without entering the C, so Therefore I am cleared into the Charlie. 

 

[Hank]

ATC clears aircraft into B space. If talking to approach and acknowledged by your tail number, you're okay going into C and D unless they tell you to remain clear. 

[Bryan]

7 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Call the TRACON on the phone and discuss it with them.

It seems to me that you should descend, call Rogers tower for transition through their class D and then call Bentonville without ever calling approach. 

I did this exact thing today, called them up on the phone and discussed the situation with them. Turns out, they have could have a Letter of Agreement (LOA) with these airspace’s and some can clear you and some cannot; most of the time the approach controller does not have the authority to clear you thru the D without “coordination” with them. Now, asking, most of the time they are willing to call the tower on your behalf and get the clearance but not guaranteed. You are still responsible unless they “clear you” explicitly. The ownership is on the PIC to get a clearance.

Thanks for the responses. Again, I always go around them, VFR, as I know it is not in violation. Now I know how to go thru them if I want, VFR.

 

[carusoam]

Great question, Bryan!  Well documented.

You can see how important it is because it looks like you will be cutting through the approach zone of the Delta where you might have some company...

Always know before you go...

Great responses from everyone!

Best regards,

-a-