FAA gov't ID must be RealID?

[RobertGary1]

A lot of people in California are choosing to forgo the new federally compliant RealID. For most it only is required when going through TSA at the airport. Is it safe to assume that the FAA intended that the ID that we have to carry as pilots must be RealID compliant?

 

-Robert

[jaylw314]

21 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

A lot of people in California are choosing to forgo the new federally compliant RealID. For most it only is required when going through TSA at the airport. Is it safe to assume that the FAA intended that the ID that we have to carry as pilots must be RealID compliant?

 

-Robert

<blink> I thought the only document we have to carry is our pilot's certificate?  There's no photo on it so it's useless as an ID.

IIRC, you'd only have to carry your state ID with you if you're an LSA pilot.  I can't recall if you do if you use BasicMed (I think you do not need to)

[RobertGary1]

22 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

<blink> I thought the only document we have to carry is our pilot's certificate?  There's no photo on it so it's useless as an ID.

IIRC, you'd only have to carry your state ID with you if you're an LSA pilot.  I can't recall if you do if you use BasicMed (I think you do not need to)

Nope, that reg changed awhile back. Must carry a photo ID to use your FAA certificates.

(a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person:

...

(2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:

(i) Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;

(ii) Government identification card issued by the Federal government, a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States;

(iii) U.S. Armed Forces' identification card;

(iv) Official passport;

(v) Credential that authorizes unescorted access to a security identification display area at an airport regulated under 49 CFR part 1542; or

(vi) Other form of identification that the Administrator finds acceptable.

[jaylw314]

2 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Nope, that reg changed awhile back. Must carry a photo ID to use your FAA certificates.

(a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person:

...

(2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:

(i) Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;

(ii) Government identification card issued by the Federal government, a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States;

(iii) U.S. Armed Forces' identification card;

(iv) Official passport;

(v) Credential that authorizes unescorted access to a security identification display area at an airport regulated under 49 CFR part 1542; or

(vi) Other form of identification that the Administrator finds acceptable.

Ah.  Then I imagine that will eventually be the requirement, since I suspect the intention of the ID requirement and RealID is to prove that none of us are Middle-Eastern terrorists.  I feel so much safer now. 

[PT20J]

After 9/11, the FAA wanted to require a photo on pilot certificates. AOPA and others successfully argued that possessing a government issued photo ID would be be a simpler way of achieving the same goal. Unless the reg gets changed, there should be no tie-in with RealID which is a TSA issue not an FAA issue.

[RobertGary1]

8 minutes ago, PT20J said:

After 9/11, the FAA wanted to require a photo on pilot certificates. AOPA and others successfully argued that possessing a government issued photo ID would be be a simpler way of achieving the same goal. Unless the reg gets changed, there should be no tie-in with RealID which is a TSA issue not an FAA issue.

Its more than TSA though. It affects other federal uses too. You can't get on a military base as a civilian without a RealID, etc.

Since non-ReadID's are not federally compliant I don't think they serve any purpose for the feds, which is why I'm wondering about the pilot requirement.

-Robert

Edited October 30, 2019 by RobertGary1

[jaylw314]

16 minutes ago, PT20J said:

After 9/11, the FAA wanted to require a photo on pilot certificates. AOPA and others successfully argued that possessing a government issued photo ID would be be a simpler way of achieving the same goal. Unless the reg gets changed, there should be no tie-in with RealID which is a TSA issue not an FAA issue.

But TSA has already got a foot in the door with policy--the requirement that CFI's document residency status for primary students.  I suspect that that can open the door to other demands

[jaylw314]

10 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Its more than TSA though. It affects other federal uses too. You can't get on a military base as a civilian without a RealID, etc.

Since non-ReadID's are not federally compliant I don't think they serve any purpose for the feds, which is why I'm wondering about the pilot requirement.

-Robert

Well, the LSA requirement to carry a drivers license was to support the idea of medical qualifications to operate a vehicle (which is a state matter), not to indicate residency status, so I suspect for now that will not be require RealID unless an LSA terrorist turns up...

[RobertGary1]

9 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

But TSA has already got a foot in the door with policy--the requirement that CFI's document residency status for primary students.  I suspect that that can open the door to other demands

I always forget my off year TSA recurrency training. I was due again in September and I just remembered to take it 2 days ago. I wish they'd change it to 24 month recurrency so we could do it when we renew our CFI.

-Robert

Edited October 30, 2019 by RobertGary1

[Yetti]

It's a little mean so hopefully no one gets to offended.   TSA = Tray Stackers of America.     I just can't see TSA without having a laugh.

[jaylw314]

33 minutes ago, Yetti said:

It's a little mean so hopefully no one gets to offended.   TSA = Tray Stackers of America.     I just can't see TSA without having a laugh.

Well, I try to be nice to them because they're working hard at a stressful  job with no appreciation--but you still made me laugh 

[RobertGary1]

44 minutes ago, Yetti said:

It's a little mean so hopefully no one gets to offended.   TSA = Tray Stackers of America.     I just can't see TSA without having a laugh.

Toilet Safety Administration

 

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Well, I try to be nice to them because they're working hard at a stressful  job with no appreciation--but you still made me laugh 

I don't want to do their job either I mean they don't even get to carry a gun.   I am always nice to people that I don't want to do their job.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Yetti

[MikeOH]

7 hours ago, Yetti said:

It's a little mean so hopefully no one gets to offended.   TSA = Tray Stackers of America.     I just can't see TSA without having a laugh.

Well, I'm going to be mean...Too Stupid for Arby's

(They advertised jobs on pizza boxes for gawd's sakes!)

 

(But, I'm nice to 'em, too.  They can easily make my life more miserable than going through airport security already is)

[RLCarter]

12 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

A lot of people in California are choosing to forgo the new federally compliant RealID. For most it only is required when going through TSA at the airport. Is it safe to assume that the FAA intended that the ID that we have to carry as pilots must be RealID compliant?

This is what is on the DPS (Dept of Public Safety) website, when i renewed my TDL a few years back the new one was a "Real ID"

The United States Congress passed the REAL ID Act in 2005 in response to the terrorist attacks on 9/11. The REAL ID Act requires states to adopt and implement uniform standards for the issuance and production of state-issued driver licenses and identification cards if they are to be accepted as identity documents by the federal government. This Act strengthens the integrity and security of state-issued cards in an effort to reduce identity fraud and terrorism. 

Beginning October 1, 2020, only state-issued driver licenses and identification cards that are fully compliant with the REAL ID Act will be accepted for official federal government purposes, such as entering secure federal buildings or boarding domestic flights. Texas began issuing REAL ID compliant cards on October 10, 2016, and these cards are marked with a gold circle with an inset star located in the upper right-hand corner, as seen in the examples below.

[Flash]

RealID does not appear to be required under current law for piloting a non-commercial airplane, even after October 2020. To make it required, there probably would need to be a new law enacted or a new regulation promulgated.

Section 202(a)(1) of the RealID Act provides: "Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this division, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose,

a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of

this section."

The effective time has been pushed back, but this is the statutory language enacted in 2005.

Section 201(3) of the Act provides: 'Official purpose.--The term ``official purpose'' includes

but is not limited to accessing Federal facilities,

boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft, entering nuclear power plants, and any other

purposes that the Secretary shall determine.'

The Secretary's determination is reflected in the Code of Federal Regulations.

6 C.F.R. § 37.3 defines "official purpose" as "accessing Federal facilities, boarding Federally-regulated commercial aircraft, and entering nuclear power plants."

Yes, the statute says "includes but is not limited to," which does open the door to broader application, but the regulation does not include that language. The regulation therefore limits the breadth of the statute.

The above is not offered as and is not intended to be relied on as legal advice. Pilots should consult their own advisors as to the application of the statute and the regulations to their situations. Fly safe.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Flash

[Flash]

BTW, the regulations also explain that "Federally-regulated commercial aircraft means a commercial aircraft regulated by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA)."

 

[RLCarter]

But does it really matter if you have renewed you DL or State ID, I renewed my DL a few years ago and it is a Real ID, my wife's DL is not a Real ID so she will have to go down the DMV and get a new DL issued. Not sure what the issue is, eventually everyone's DL or State ID will be in compliance 

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, RLCarter said:

But does it really matter if you have renewed you DL or State ID, I renewed my DL a few years ago and it is a Real ID, my wife's DL is not a Real ID so she will have to go down the DMV and get a new DL issued. Not sure what the issue is, eventually everyone's DL or State ID will be in compliance 

 

In California you can choose. Many are opting for the non federally compliant one because you don’t have to wait 3 hours at dmv and collect all the paperwork. 

 

-Robert

[Yetti]

Just use a passport.

[N201MKTurbo]

I have a passport card in my wallet. It works for everything.

[jaylw314]

Some states have not implemented RealID yet.  Oregon is not offering them until July 2020, 3 months before the TSA will start requiring them in October

[RobertGary1]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

Just use a passport.

Right, that is an alternative but doesn't answer the question if RealId is required.

 

-Robert

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Some states have not implemented RealID yet.  Oregon is not offering them until July 2020, 3 months before the TSA will start requiring them in October

Is Oregon's date actually in October? Each state was given its own extension after the original date.

-Robert

[KSMooniac]

It's a little mean so hopefully no one gets to offended.   TSA = Tray Stackers of America.     I just can't see TSA without having a laugh.

Thousands Standing Around also fits!

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