ExpressJetter Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 Hey all, I am working out the details on a purchase but am running into a little issue. The plane I'm looking at buying hasnt flown in about a year and is out of an annual. I'd like to get it to a mooney service center for a prebuy/annual. The seller has offered to have it ferried(by a buddy with a ferry permit) to a mechanic for the prebuy, but was expecting it to be a flight that is 10 minutes, vs a 45 min flight to the place I want to look at it. Issue is the owner doesnt have insurance and is worried about the liability of a longer flight to my mechanics. Any thoughts or ideas on how to make this happen? Any way to get a 1 day insurance policy for the flight? Anyone know of an a&p to do the ferry in the northeast? Just trying to see the options out there that avoid using his mechanic that performed the last annual. Thanks
jetdriven Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) Absolutely do not use any shop that the owner knows. And if he is too cheap to spend money flying it or keeping it insured or in annual, do you really want this plane? Here’s another thing, most of the risk is takeoff and landing. Cruise flight is pretty low risk. So if he is worried that it’s going to fly 10 minutes OK but not 40 minutes well I would pass. Edited September 13, 2019 by jetdriven 12
ExpressJetter Posted September 13, 2019 Author Report Posted September 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, chriscalandro said: Where is the airplane? Pennsylvania
carusoam Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 We have an insurance guy... that may know an answer.... The amount of risk to the plane owner and pilot is starting to rise... plane hasn’t flown much... the Pilot May not be very Mooney savy.... a simple engine out can be a very expensive loss... it is possible that an MSC/Mooney mechanic May have everything needed... insurance, trained pilot, and a place to take it... Best regards, -a- 1
ExpressJetter Posted September 13, 2019 Author Report Posted September 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, jetdriven said: Absolutely do not use any shop that the owner knows. And if he is too cheap to spend money flying it or keeping it insured or in annual, do you really want this plane? Here’s another thing, most of the risk is takeoff and landing. Cruise flight is pretty low risk. So if he is worried that it’s going to fly 10 minutes OK but not 40 minutes well I would pass. That's my thought, but all talks have not been direct. His friend is handling the sale, who says the guy has a bunch of money. I just dont get why he doesnt keep insurance of it even though it's pretty cheap.
ExpressJetter Posted September 13, 2019 Author Report Posted September 13, 2019 1 minute ago, carusoam said: We have an insurance guy... that may know an answer.... The amount of risk to the plane owner and pilot is starting to rise... plane hasn’t flown much... the Pilot May not be very Mooney savy.... a simple engine out can be a very expensive loss... it is possible that an MSC/Mooney mechanic May have everything needed... insurance, trained pilot, and a place to take it... Best regards, -a- My call in the am is to the MSC to see what their idea/options are.
carusoam Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 What part of PA east or west? we have an MSer mechanic in the east end that may be helpful... (Find Bryan) @orionflt Best regards, -a- 1
ExpressJetter Posted September 13, 2019 Author Report Posted September 13, 2019 Just now, carusoam said: What part of PA east or west? we have an MSer mechanic in the east end that may be helpful... (Find Bryan) @orionflt Best regards, -a- It is eastern PA. Where is he out of?
toto Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 If it were me, I wouldn't want an uninsured aircraft to move an inch while I was negotiating a purchase. Too many prickly risk of loss issues. Especially when the cowl contains a bucket of rust with a puddle of dinosaur juice at the bottom.
thinwing Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 His Insurence is null because aircraft is out of annual and thus non airworthy.I would tell him to put it back in annual than you take it to whomever for pre buy. 1
RLCarter Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) When I purchased my E I contacted a broker and told him i needed "Hull not in Motion" until I was ready to fly it, I seem to remember him asking if I needed ferry it to another place to call him back, so maybe you can get insurance for ferry flights...? Edited September 13, 2019 by RLCarter
MikeOH Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, RLCarter said: When I purchased my E I contacted a broker and told him i needed "Hull not in Motion" until I was ready to fly it, I seem to remember him asking if I needed fairy it to another place to call him back, so maybe you can get insurance for fairy flights...? I wouldn't think a fairy needs an airplane in order to fly Edited September 13, 2019 by MikeOH 2 2
RLCarter Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, MikeOH said: I wouldn't think a fairy needs an airplane in order to fly correct, please recheck my spelling 1
Kmac Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 8 hours ago, ExpressJetter said: It is eastern PA. Where is he out of? @orionflt is out of Quakertown (UKT). @carusoam is correct; Brian is very knowledgeable and fair. He also will probably give you great advice for the situation. 1
Cruiser Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 our shop is working on a plane the new owner got a great deal on. It was out of annual, not flown in over a year. Poor guy is in $20,.000 so far, still not finished. 1 1 1
steingar Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 I doubt I'd go for it. I specify where the airplane is to be inspected, it's up to the owner to get it there. Does he want to sell his airplane or not? To me an out of annual airplane is worth scrap value and not a penny more. If it is in such good shape why doesn't the owner just hire a mechanic and get the annual inspection done? What's he afraid of? Neglected airplanes get really expensive really quickly. Do what you will, I wouldn't budge on this unless the aircraft was annulled by a mechanic who'd never seen it. An MSC better yet. Owner doesn't like it, he can go find another customer while his airplane continues to degrade. 1
irishpilot Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 Run away, don't walk! On my first Mooney I dumped $15k my first year fixing issues of a "low time" plane that hardly flew. If the pilot can't keep it insured, registered and flying, I guarantee there are all kinds of deferred mx that YOU will be on the hook to fix. There are plenty of Mooney's on the market. Unless you are getting a plane $25-50k under value and you are willing to have it in the shop a lot over the next year, you aren't getting a deal. Just my advice from lessons hard-learned.Fly Safe,Safety Forum Mod 3
chriscalandro Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) Don't listen to this guy. ∆. Any airplane that fits your budget, needs, and plans is worth at least having a look at. Yeah it might need things, but those things may not be airworthiness items you can pick at over time. It's at least worth looking at vs listening to someone on the internet who has never seen the airplane and is just guessing. I'd go look at it or have someone local go look at it. Figure out why it's not in annual, and go from there. It could be out of annual for financial reasons and there isn't anything stopping it from getting through. You never know unless you ask. Or again, you can just make guesses with strangers on the internet and pass it up. Edited September 13, 2019 by chriscalandro 2
irishpilot Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 Don't listen to this guy. ∆. Any airplane that fits your budget, needs, and plans is worth at least having a look at. Yeah it might need things, but those things may not be airworthiness items you can pick at over time. It's at least worth looking at vs listening to someone on the internet who has never seen the airplane and is just guessing. I'd go look at it or have someone local go look at it. Figure out why it's not in annual, and go from there. It could be out of annual for financial reasons and there isn't anything stopping it from getting through. You never know unless you ask. Or again, you can just make guesses with strangers on the internet and pass it up. The OP asked for advice. My advice is just as relevant as yours. He should make an informed decision and there is a lot of knowledge on this forum, which is why it is so awesome. Please don't try to discredit others' advice on this forum. We are a Mooney family and should treat each other as such. Fly Safe,Safety Forum Mod 8
DXB Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 Agree with all who say run, don't walk - it is not worth the financial risk. Buy a plane that is in annual and flying. If you decide to go forward, I agree Brian (Orionfit) is a terrific resource. Also talk to Dave Mathiesen at Airmods in Robbinsville NJ for further guidance. He knows these planes, and his shop has knowledge and resources in getting them moved places better than anyone. 2
ExpressJetter Posted September 13, 2019 Author Report Posted September 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, DXB said: Agree with all who say run, don't walk - it is not worth the financial risk. Buy a plane that is in annual and flying. If you decide to go forward, I agree Brian (Orionfit) is a terrific resource. Also talk to Dave Mathiesen at Airmods in Robbinsville NJ for further guidance. He knows these planes, and his shop has knowledge and resources in getting them moved places better than anyone. I wanted the annual done at airmods, but the seller doesnt want it to go that far and across state lines. We agreed on Henry Webber in Lancaster PA ( another MSC). Anyone got any info on them?
larrynimmo Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 they have a good reputation and years before I owned my plane, they used to work on it. Another idea, is if you could fly a mooney mechanic to where the plane is, and he could check it out onsite provided the plane is hangered....
chriscalandro Posted September 13, 2019 Report Posted September 13, 2019 That sounds like a good plan. I think it’s understandable the seller wants to limit the distance it gets moved. There’s another thread around here about that. Again, there’s no reason to abandon it yet if it looks like it’s going to be a good fit for you. I don’t care if you buy a 20k airplane or a 70k airplane. The potential for heavy maintenance items doesn’t change much from what I have seen. Go through the process and it will either work out or it won’t nobody here (so far) has seen or had any experience with this airplane except you use best judgement and move forward. I’ve said it before, but if everyone followed the “run don’t walk” advice that gets thrown around here daily, there would be no more than 3 vintage Mooneys still flying.
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