Recommended Posts

Hey Mooney-ites,

New guy on the prebuy!! I’m a 1st timer and very nervous about a ‘66 M20C. My CFII says they’re a hassle to work on, fly faster than I need (125 hr VFR guy) and really should consider something else. Yet, I press on....Any recommendations for a “Mooney friendly” prebuy guy in the SLC area or one willing to travel? Couple of additional questions;

I live remote from the plane and actually haven’t seen it in person, yet. Is this a smart strategy or should I kick the tires first? Should I expect to pay asking for a plane in “good condition” (yes I know it’s a loaded question)

scott

 

i know there’s a member from Logan, any rec’s?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*

Welcome aboard Symm....!

Let me be the first to say... get a new CFII...:) (Typical MS response to anything bad said about a Mooney)

The 66 is one of the more modern ones... fancy windows, new bits and pieces... like an updated fuel strainer... cam locks everywhere... nifty wing leveler... some are connected to altitude hold or heading and course followers...

New tools have been invented since your CFII was stamped out...  :)

They compensate for the tightness...

If you look at Mooneys and compare to your ordinary automobile... Mooneys  aren’t tight at all.

Changing a water pump out of some cars requires pulling the engine block out... you won’t need to do that in your M20C’s first 200,000 miles... now ask your CFII what he thinks of that...  :)

OK, I’m only partially serious... about the plane, not about your unknowing CFII... he’s probably a nice guy, right?

You have plenty of flight experience to buy your first Mooney... See if you can get some flight training for that... what is called Transition Training, with a Mooney knowledgeable CFI.  Best way to get up to speed with all things Mooney...

Read up on how to buy a plane... there is a lot to be learned before it gets expensive... find anything related to pre-purchase inspections...

expect that knowledgeable people will have picked out the good planes first... leaving the less good ones for somebody else... consider yourself the somebody else...   

When you finally are ready to buy... the first plane can often get away... it’s a learning experience about yourself and what it takes to buy a good plane quicker....

Don’t rush until you know what you are looking for...

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought my first M20C last month, sight unseen, 4 states away.

I made the deal over the internet, put $500 down, and then flew there with cashier's check in hand to seal the deal, and fly the plane home. 

If anything started sounding fishy, I was prepared to walk away.

Here's what I looked for:

  • Corrosion particularly near the air window on pilot's side. If the frame was bad there, no economical fix for the plane.
  • Fuel leaks. Look for staining under the wings.
  • Gear - rigged straight, good donuts. 
  • Pour over the maintenance logs. Look at what they've replaced or fixed in the past couple years.
  • Look for real engine overhaul time/prop overhaul times and compare with tach.
  • Look at work done during particularly the last 5 annuals.
  • Make sure the IFR is current and air worthiness (the annual) is current
  • Check the oil.

If anything seems strange, ask the owner for straight answer. Be prepared to walk if it doesn't feel right. Trust the gut.

Rules of thumb:

  • New paint is $15000
  • ADS-B with WAAS GPS is $15000
  • Interior is $15000

If you have to do one of those, you probably aren't reselling it for a profit. 

The guys with unlimited money (you know, the doctors and lawyers) will demand you pay $1k-$2k for a pre-buy inspection. 

Even if you skip the prebuy guy, I'd definitely spend some money on a CFI to take you up and get you used to aimpoint/airspeed approach and landings before you fly it home. Mooneys land like a T-38.

My Mooney is still awesome and I've flown it about 50 hours these past 5 weeks.

Joe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try to be nice to the doctors and lawyers Joe... they have feelings too... :)

And often they have really good insight on buying planes... a few of them around here have bought several over the years...

Even the planes that are entry level...

There are entry level PPIs

There are entry level TTs... not everyone has, or needs T38 experience...

Buying a plane and learning to fly it properly is a solid idea... stalls and Go around are important to see once with a knowing instructor...

Knowing how to ferret out the bad planes while you are at home, is a bunch better than finding out by going to visit it...

Even better when its low cost...

MS is on the internet, It is open to everyone... but, and rightly so, it doesn’t take safety very lightly...

And it does a lot for the new guy that hasn’t bought a plane before...

Nobody is demanding PPIs or TT... There is always somebody to layout why these make sense, and how much these things cost... or how to tailor it to a budget...

Not everyone can afford to hop on a plane to go see a plane...  at least I didn’t... :)

Keep up the positive attitude though... that is catchy!

GO MS!

Best regards,

-a-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Shake your Mooney maker you can go to the Downloads section and get the PPI checklist provided by @M20Doc. His knowledge and experience from years of working on our planes went into the creation of the list and, at least for me, it covers much of what I would like to know about a potential expenditure of this magnitude.

Several folks here have purchased their Mooney's with fewer hours than you have. Many have taken their transition training and then gone to a MAPA Safety Foundation Pilot Proficiency Program (PPP) for an advanced level of Mooney specific training. But the transition training should not be taken lightly or skipped. Mooneys are not hard to fly or land, but they require a dedication to precision not required by the trainers many of us first flew.

I really do not understand the "fly faster than you need" comment. Probably doesn't like a Corvette or Porsche either. :blink:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't worry about it. All of us were noobs once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our mechanic in Logan has worked on Mooney's for many years. I have seen B's to TLS in the shop.  A few weeks ago there were two in his hangar (one of them mine for an annual and gear issues). Send me a PM and I can get you his contact information.  

Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Our mechanic in Logan has worked on Mooney's for many years. I have seen B's to TLS in the shop.  A few weeks ago there were two in his hangar (one of them mine for an annual and gear issues). Send me a PM and I can get you his contact information.  
Tim



I appreciate the contact. I apologize, I pm’d you off of another thread before seeing this one!
Scott


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Oldguy said:

@Shake your Mooney maker you can go to the Downloads section and get the PPI checklist provided by @M20Doc. His knowledge and experience from years of working on our planes went into the creation of the list and, at least for me, it covers much of what I would like to know about a potential expenditure of this magnitude.

Several folks here have purchased their Mooney's with fewer hours than you have. Many have taken their transition training and then gone to a MAPA Safety Foundation Pilot Proficiency Program (PPP) for an advanced level of Mooney specific training. But the transition training should not be taken lightly or skipped. Mooneys are not hard to fly or land, but they require a dedication to precision not required by the trainers many of us first flew.

I really do not understand the "fly faster than you need" comment. Probably doesn't like a Corvette or Porsche either. :blink:

@Oldguy, I as well appreciate this reply. I was unable to find @M20Doc's PPI checklist in the downloads tab. Is there any way it can be linked?

Thanks in advance. 

~J~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, docjeffry said:

@Oldguy, I as well appreciate this reply. I was unable to find @M20Doc's PPI checklist in the downloads tab. Is there any way it can be linked?

Thanks in advance. 

~J~

 

1 hour ago, Shake your Mooney maker said:


Ditto


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Try this:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether you are putting out 1 AMU to go see the plane or 2AMU for a PPI, it is extremely daunting to know that if it turns out to be the wrong plane, you don't get any credit for that money. And you are going to have to do it again on the next one. After you have owned a plane for a long time, and look back, you realize that was some of the cheapest money you ever spent on plane. But when you are trying to buy a plane, it sure doesn't look cheap. Especially to your significant other.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My rule is NEVER buy the first airplane you actually look at! PERIOD!

Go look at a few in your area even if they are not what you want tom get a first hand idea on comparisons, 

Look at 2 or 3 near by THEN go looking for the one you want. You can learn a lot just by looking and tire kicking,

Go  out to a couple of airports and look real good a the ones tied down and get used to seeing whats wrong on them. 

You need to educate yourself before you go put money out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would recommend Kerry McIntyre in Evanston, WY - 70 miles East of SLC. 

307-789-6866 

www.knr-inc.com

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/11/2019 at 9:51 PM, Shake your Mooney maker said:

I’m a 1st timer and very nervous about a ‘66 M20C. My CFII says they’re a hassle to work on, fly faster than I need (125 hr VFR guy) and really should consider something else.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that there was no training whatsoever (not even an hour) on airplane purchasing and ownership when I did my CFI, CFII, MEI or ATP training. A flight instructor is taught to teach flying, not buy airplanes. How many airplanes has your CFI owned ?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, cliffy said:

My rule is NEVER buy the first airplane you actually look at! PERIOD!

This!

32 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I can tell you with 100% certainty that there was no training whatsoever (not even an hour) on airplane purchasing and ownership when I did my CFI, CFII, MEI or ATP training. A flight instructor is taught to teach flying, not buy airplanes. How many airplanes has your CFI owned ?

And this!

I spent $1200 on a pre-buy for my first Mooney. The second one I pretty much did the pre-buy myself. But by then I knew what I was looking for. And I don't think a list of things to look for is all that helpful. Because if you haven't seen it before, you really can't know what good vs. bad looks like.

$1000 or $2000 for a pre-buy is cheap compared to the cost of owning one of the Mooneys on my infamous list. Someone here once said, "There's nothing quite as expensive as a cheap Mooney."

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Scott, I was in your shoes a month ago when I was purchasing my first airplane and it is a 1966 M20E. There is a MSC in Boise that previous owner agreed to deliver airplane to for pre-buy but and we agreed on a small deposit ($400). Before I got an airplane to MSC I asked a mechanic familiar with Mooneys to do a thorough log books review (owner sent me scans). Mooney service center in Boise is Cascade Aircraft Management and I am pretty happy with my experience with them. I also turned pre-buy into an annual. Before you travel to see the airplane - get logbooks, pictures, do a title search and if the owner back up - look for another airplane. I was waiting for mine for 4 months but if you think you found a good one - act fast

As for the first airplane choice - I am very surprised as if you maintain proper airspeeds your every landing will be a greaser. I have 260h total and only 17 in Mooneys but I always use less than 2000ft from threshold to runway exit when I land. Some stuff requires more attention - such as MP / RPM combinations, protecting an engine from overheating / overcooling but that's due to the fact that I am also new to complex world and this is not a rental anymore ;)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/12/2019 at 10:25 AM, Shake your Mooney maker said:

Thank you for your insights. Carusoam, would you be interested in a few mentoring questions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry,

I fell behind in my reading... and missed your request...

Fire away...

use the quote button, or @ sign..... to send a hint your a looking for somebody...like @carusoam

Best regards,

-a-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate all the great advice, I’ve taken advice from each of the threads above. In fact, I’m not getting much work done... I seem to spend all my time looking, reading, calling ( good thing I’m the boss)!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry,
I fell behind in my reading... and missed your request...
Fire away...
use the quote button, or @ sign..... to send a hint your a looking for somebody...like [mention=7104]carusoam[/mention]
Best regards,
-a-


Sorry for the faux pas, thanks for the instruction I’m not much of a blogger, still trying figure out the process!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
....Before I got an airplane to MSC I asked a mechanic familiar with Mooneys to do a thorough log books review (owner sent me scans). Mooney service center in Boise is Cascade Aircraft Management and I am pretty happy with my experience with them. I also turned pre-buy into an annual...


Hey Lithium 366,

Thanks for the referral, I live in Idaho Falls. I may end up using them!
Scott


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would recommend Kerry McIntyre in Evanston, WY - 70 miles East of SLC. 
307-789-6866 
www.knr-inc.com
 



I spoke with Kerry last night, the guys a genius! I perused his website and read nearly all the shop talk articles...great riveting (pun intended) reading
Scott


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.