So will Avidyne keep up with Garmin

[Yetti]

And do a 5000ish IFR GPS?

[M016576]

45 minutes ago, Yetti said:

And do a 5000ish IFR GPS?

Interesting thought.  

I would love to see it,  but I doubt it... mainly because garmin has always had the capability due to their line of gps’s without radios and their gouging prices.

 Not sure where avidyne breaks even on their units- but I’d imagine their price point would have been lower out of the gates if they had much more wiggle room.  

Time will tell

[EricJ]

59 minutes ago, M016576 said:

Interesting thought.  

I would love to see it,  but I doubt it... mainly because garmin has always had the capability due to their line of gps’s without radios and their gouging prices.

 Not sure where avidyne breaks even on their units- but I’d imagine their price point would have been lower out of the gates if they had much more wiggle room.  

Time will tell

Not sure about that, since Avidyne's base pricing is similar and they're competing on features.   e.g., the IFD includes SVS, 500ft, etc., etc., that are all expensive options on the Garmin.  Plus buttons...I really do like having the buttons and knobs.   So I suspect their margins may be just fine.

I did have to call for support a little bit back and had an excellent experience.   A single phone call (they called me!) sorted out a mis-configuration by the avionics shop that I was able to correct myself.

No regrets here.   Would buy again. 

[MIm20c]

I think they should get aggressive on 440 pricing.  I feel they already have the superior product and it’s ready to slide in a 100k racks out there. Lots of deep pockets (older Cirrus etc) that are ready to buy. This alone will dictate 430w prices. People buying the 175/375 are looking for a cheap solution to avoid buying a new 650/750. Numbers wise (beyond those in the know on MS) they were never planning on an Avidyne unit in the first place. 

I cant possibly believe a 175 clone would provide the same profit margin as a 440. 

 

Garmin charges almost 5k more for the 750 vs 650. Right now with the transponder deals Avidyne is within 1.5k for their two models. Either the margins are too thin on the 440 as mentioned above or they need to sharpen the pencil and get aggressive on pushing the smaller unit out the door. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by MIm20c

[Jesse Saint]

Avidyne did recently drop the prices on the 440 and 540. Has anybody EVER heard of Garmin doing that? They also made the WiFi/Bluetooth a standard feature. It would be interesting to see them doing a special on the 410 (gps only), but the market for GPS only is fairly limited. 

[Gary0747]

I have wished they would bring back the 2 inch gps/com like the gnc 300xl with wass. Forget the color graphics since anything smaller than a 750 is too small and most users are using their iPads for maps anyway.  Just build in a good WiFi or blue tooth link to them that is non propierty.  Garmin will never do this but an opening for Avidyne?

 

[M016576]

12 minutes ago, Gary0747 said:

I have wished they would bring back the 2 inch gps/com like the gnc 300xl with wass. Forget the color graphics since anything smaller than a 750 is too small and most users are using their iPads for maps anyway.  Just build in a good WiFi or blue tooth link to them that is non propierty.  Garmin will never do this but an opening for Avidyne?

 

That’s a very interesting idea- an aviation GPS with no screen, or a limited physical interface that primarily interfaces across a gateway to a portable.

[Andy95W]

4 hours ago, Yetti said:

And do a 5000ish IFR GPS?

If they do, I’ll buy it. But $4295 from Sarasota Avionics for the GPS175 means I’ll be doing that instead. 

And as for the old GNC 300xl- my guess is that by OSH there will be a GNC375 out with comm radio. 

[David_H]

Avidyne will need to move swiftly if they wish to have a chance to compete against the GPS175. They’ll either need to lower the 440 price point or introduce another product capable of competing with the GPS175. Avidyne currently does not have an offering that can be considered to be a direct competitor. 

Garmin looks to have strategically put owners thinking about upgrading at a crossroads decision. This decision will heavily influence future upgrade decisions since the Garmin ecosystem is mostly closed. This could also be seen as a first move made towards ending support for the GNS 430 and 530 boxes. That could also severely impact future Avidyne sales. 

 

[Cruiser]

the GPS 175 is only there to package the G3x for WAAS navigation. It makes the integration of autopilot with the panel mount hardware complete. Otherwise purchasers would need to buy the high priced GTN 650/750 to get functionality.

[Bryan]

33 minutes ago, Cruiser said:

the GPS 175 is only there to package the G3x for WAAS navigation. It makes the integration of autopilot with the panel mount hardware complete. Otherwise purchasers would need to buy the high priced GTN 650/750 to get functionality.

They really need the 650/750 for the G3X as the 175 nor the G3X does not have comms.

[Steve W]

17 minutes ago, Bryan said:

They really need the 650/750 for the G3X as the 175 nor the G3X does not have comms.

If only Garmin made some sort of remote comm radio that they could get approved to work with the G3X....

[M016576]

7 hours ago, David_H said:

Avidyne will need to move swiftly if they wish to have a chance to compete against the GPS175. They’ll either need to lower the 440 price point or introduce another product capable of competing with the GPS175. Avidyne currently does not have an offering that can be considered to be a direct competitor. 

Garmin looks to have strategically put owners thinking about upgrading at a crossroads decision. This decision will heavily influence future upgrade decisions since the Garmin ecosystem is mostly closed. This could also be seen as a first move made towards ending support for the GNS 430 and 530 boxes. That could also severely impact future Avidyne sales. 

 

Keep in mind the 440 has a nav and comm radio, as well as a WiFi and Bluetooth terminal...though... if they sold the 440 at the 175 cost point, I don’t see why anyone would ever buy a 175.... unless they were hell bent on the G3X display.

I’ve  contended from the start that if the 440 was priced at about $6500-$7000, and the 540 at below 10K, then garmin would have a serious threat on their hands... I think Avidyne would like to take all their market share... I just don’t think they can without taking a loss.

full disclosure- I own a 440... and I wouldn’t install a 650/750 even if someone paid me to do it (hate the garmin interface).

[Bryan]

10 minutes ago, Steve W said:

If only Garmin made some sort of remote comm radio that they could get approved to work with the G3X....

They do make remote COMMs for the experimental crowd and responded to my question on the webinar they were not going to certify them.

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, Cruiser said:

the GPS 175 is only there to package the G3x for WAAS navigation. It makes the integration of autopilot with the panel mount hardware complete. Otherwise purchasers would need to buy the high priced GTN 650/750 to get functionality.

Pretty sure that's not the case, or at least it doesn't make complete sense.

Think about all the airplanes out there with old 2" GPS's, like KLN 89/90/94s, GPS155/155XLs, GX-50/55/60s, Trimble 2000, etc.  This GPS175 is a perfect low-cost replacement that is current, WAAS, identical sized, and easier to install than a GTN/GNS.

[smccray]

10 hours ago, M016576 said:

Keep in mind the 440 has a nav and comm radio, as well as a WiFi and Bluetooth terminal...though... if they sold the 440 at the 175 cost point, I don’t see why anyone would ever buy a 175.... unless they were hell bent on the G3X display.

I’ve  contended from the start that if the 440 was priced at about $6500-$7000, and the 540 at below 10K, then garmin would have a serious threat on their hands... I think Avidyne would like to take all their market share... I just don’t think they can without taking a loss.

full disclosure- I own a 440... and I wouldn’t install a 650/750 even if someone paid me to do it (hate the garmin interface).

Certainly a possibility that Avidyne lowers the price and gives Garmin a run for their money, but at this point the allure of the G3X is going to be a problem for Avidyne.

The G3X uses the MapMX data format to interface with panel mounted navigators. Even if Avidyne were able to get the paperwork to install IFDs with a G3X, the IFD doesn’t output the MapMX data format.  MapMX is a Garmin proprietary format.

Dynon displays Avidyne navigators with their equipment. The world is lining up as Dynon/Avidyne vs Garmin.

[Oldguy]

9 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Pretty sure that's not the case, or at least it doesn't make complete sense.

Think about all the airplanes out there with old 2" GPS's, like KLN 89/90/94s, GPS155/155XLs, GX-50/55/60s, Trimble 2000, etc.  This GPS175 is a perfect low-cost replacement that is current, WAAS, identical sized, and easier to install than a GTN/GNS.

To my thinking, this is the sweet spot Garmin just hit. Lots of C172/182/206/etc. out there with the old King/Garmin/Trimble GPS and separate radios wanting to avoid ripping out two units to replace one. Now, they can really upgrade to ADS-B out, replace their non- WAAS GPS and be queued up for the G3X Touch if they want to do it in the future. 

I know if I still had my 172 with the GPS 155 and was looking for ADS-B capability, the new 375 would be ordered and in line to be installed. 

[David_H]

10 hours ago, M016576 said:

Keep in mind the 440 has a nav and comm radio, as well as a WiFi and Bluetooth terminal...though... if they sold the 440 at the 175 cost point, I don’t see why anyone would ever buy a 175.... unless they were hell bent on the G3X display.

This is completely correct. Since Avidyne doesn't likely have a product ready to roll out the door, this appears to be the only option available to provide a timely answer for customers thinking about the new Garmin boxes. This will be an interesting decision to see made if Avidyne is actively positioning itself for purchase by BK. If they lose this war, then their perceived company value would be lowered substantially.

Garmin's announcement has put Avidyne in a position to either compete or lose the war early. It will be extremely difficult for Avidyne to get those sales back later since a Garmin purchase will firmly place a customer in the Garmin ecosystem.

[Cruiser]

11 hours ago, Bryan said:

They really need the 650/750 for the G3X as the 175 nor the G3X does not have comms.

Planes with Nav/Coms can keep the old radios and upgrade to GPS WAAS , and round it out nicely with a G3X panel. Makes perfect sense.

[gsxrpilot]

I really think this a hangs on the autopilot situation. If you need an autopilot and are ready and able to spend what it will take to get the GFC500, then the G3X and everything else falls into place. - Winner Garmin.

But ripping out and installing a whole new autopilot, while a great thing to do, is not going to be cheap, or even "aviation cheap". And the GFC500 might not even be available for your plane. There are NOT 500 models on that AML.

So if you're keeping your autopilot, or doing an upgrade e.g.(Stec 3100) rather than a rip and replace, then the whole system starts to come down like a house of cards. There is one limitation after another.

If Aspen/Dynon/Avidyne would position themselves as the solution that works with your existing, or upgraded autopilot, I think they have a compelling argument. I'm not sure they'll do that. 

We'll see.

[Bryan]

43 minutes ago, Cruiser said:

Planes with Nav/Coms can keep the old radios and upgrade to GPS WAAS , and round it out nicely with a G3X panel. Makes perfect sense.

I just don't see the user installing a 175 and a G3X and re-using old COMMs.  If you can afford the price of admission of the G3X, 175, and install, why not go to at least a 650 with the NAV/COMS/GPS, however, pending the outcome of connectivity to the G3X, I would do an IFD over the 650.

[MIm20c]

Does anyone know if the 175/375 have a native canbus connection?  If so I’d assume the unit could be directly connected to the g5 without the need for a gad29b. Might make a great navigator for someone that already has a 155 et al attached to a cdi w/ GS for backup use. 

Otherwise I don’t see how the g5 / g3x could receive gps and nav guidance to use on an approach. I don’t think a simple 2 way switch could handle the canbus signal. 

[ArtVandelay]

Seems to me they are going after all the KLNs.

Another possibility, the 650 has only 4 RS232 ports (I think the 750 has 6), if someone ran out and needed more GPS serial output/inputs it would fit nicely.


Tom

[Yetti]

It does seem like a 2" legacy move by Garmin.   Good price point to replace all the old 2" GPSs   and gateway drug to the Garmin universe.