Carbon8 Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) Hey all, Going to be starting on my instrument rating in late April and before then I wanted to do a mild panel upgrade to improve connectivity, data input/ output (Weather/Traffic), panel cleanup, and to prepare for future upgrades (GFC500) Current Panel Will be removing Trig TT31 KX155 and CDI Strike Finder (Currently INOP, will attempt to repair first but if unable will remove) AI/DG, Vacuum System Will be installing Garmin Dual G5 AI, HIS W/ GPS Garmin GNC255 W/ GI-106 CDI Garmin GTX345r Transponder Garmin 510 Flight Stream Replacing Landing Light Rocker Switch Cleanup or replace panel with aluminum cut one Looking for some input and advise on the above, IE what could be done better? What else to look at during this? Only real gripe I have is the screen size of the 650, wish someone made something similar to the MX200 MFD that could display the 650. I will be primarily using foreflight with the 345r for traffic and weather but would still be nice to have something in the panel to display both but I do not see the need to do a 750 at this time just for the display. Only other concern is with only the GTN650 and the 345r, if the 650 fails I loose all transponder controls, transponder will still squawk what was last input so not sure if its a huge concern. Edited February 28, 2019 by Carbon8 Quote
67 m20F chump Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 Does your autopilot need your attitude indicator? If so check to be sure a G5 will drive the autopilot. Quote
Carbon8 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Report Posted February 28, 2019 KAP100 is on the G5 list for compatible autopilots that I have seen. Quote
67 m20F chump Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 Century IV is on the list for the G5 but only as a HSI. As a general rule if you have a flight director you need to keep it for the autopilot for a G5. The Aspen can replace a attitude indicator with a flight director. I’m not familiar with your autopilot so I don’t know the answer to the question. I’m selling my other airplane and have purchased a Mooney because of how expensive it would have been to replace my Century IV autopilot. No kidding the replacement autopilot was more than I paid for the Mooney and that was uninstalled. Quote
Carbon8 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Report Posted February 28, 2019 From the G5 Manual, doesn't mention anything else. 5.12.4.1 G5 Configuration Honeywell (Bendix King) Autopilots Note: The Flight Controls Configuration shown below only needs to be set on the master G5. In a single installation the master is the only G5 indicator installed. In a dual installation the master is the G5 Attitude indicator. Config Page Config Option Configuration Setting Interfacing Equipment Configuration Information Flight Controls Analog Autopilot Interface AP Model G5 Config KAP/KFC A/P Config KAP 100 Bendix King KAP 100 Must be configured to operate with the KI-525 (KCS-55) heading system. KAP 140 Bendix King KAP 140 KAP 150 Bendix King KAP 150 KAP 200 Bendix King KAP 200 KFC 150 Bendix King KFC 150 KFC 200 Bendix King KFC 200 KFC 225 ** Bendix King KFC 225 Must be configured to operate with the KI-525 (KCS-55) heading system. Quote
67 m20F chump Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 Century IV is on the list for the G5 but only as a HSI. As a general rule if you have a flight director you need to keep it for the autopilot for a G5. The Aspen can replace a attitude indicator with a flight director. I’m not familiar with your autopilot so I don’t know the answer to the question. I’m selling my other airplane and have purchased a Mooney because of how expensive it would have been to replace my Century IV autopilot. No kidding the replacement autopilot was more than I paid for the Mooney and that was uninstalled. I think for the hsi g5 and your autopilot you are looking at gmu11, gad29b, and g5. You would be using your autopilot and it doesn’t capture altitude. Quote
Bryan Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 Your autopilot is Roll ATT based and will need your (legacy) Attitude indicator. The only glass (today) that you can remove the ATI is the G500 or the Aspen, both with a converter - extra $$. (GAD43 or EA100) Yes, a G5 can give you GPSS but that is it. Quote
Carbon8 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Report Posted February 28, 2019 KAP100 is only a wing leveler and single axis heading control. Quote
Bryan Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 The KAP 150 is ATT Based and that is coming from your ATI, which you wil not be able to lose with G5s at this time. Quote
MIm20c Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) I’m shooting from the hip here but I believe the kap100 is an attitude based AP not roll. This means the AP is keeping wings level off the information provided by your 258 AI. That will need to be retained but can be moved to your T&B location as it is lacking a FD. Sounds like a stellar upgrade to me with an easy transition to the gfc500 at a later date. Edited February 28, 2019 by MIm20c Quote
Carbon8 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Report Posted February 28, 2019 Not familiar with T&B location? Quote
MIm20c Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Carbon8 said: Not familiar with T&B location? Quote
Bryan Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, MIm20c said: I’m shooting from the hip here but I believe the kap100 is an attitude based AP not roll. This means the AP is keeping wings level off the information provided by your 258 AI. That will need to be retained but can be moved to your T&B location as it is lacking a FD. You are correct, ATT, not roll based. He can replace his DG with a G5-HSI but will not be able to remove the 258 AI and still have a functional autopilot. I have a feeling that Garmin could come out with a (new) adapter for the G5-ATI in the future. They have the technology, it just probably a market decision now for sell GFC500s. Quote
Bryan Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 He is saying, with a G5, you can legally remove the Turn Coordinator which leaves you an empty spot to re-locate your 258 AI. Quote
carusoam Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 Carbonate, See if I have this right... You May be removing your strike finder, if it doesn’t work? Meaning... to replace it with something that does? Flying on the east coast... the strike finder or other spherics devices are used in IMC to avoid thunderstorms... An important tool to have... Best regards, -a- Quote
ArtVandelay Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 Aero 660 in a panel mount makes a great poor mans MFD.Tom 2 Quote
Marauder Posted February 28, 2019 Report Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Bryan said: You are correct, ATT, not roll based. He can replace his DG with a G5-HSI but will not be able to remove the 258 AI and still have a functional autopilot. I have a feeling that Garmin could come out with a (new) adapter for the G5-ATI in the future. They have the technology, it just probably a market decision now for sell GFC500s. I think that is the exact reason they aren't doing it. When I hear comments that an Aspen should be more competitively priced closer to the G5s, it is these additional certification costs that are bundled into an Aspen's cost. But instead of buying a new autopilot, you keep your existing autopilot hardware. 1 Quote
Carbon8 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Report Posted March 1, 2019 Is it correct the G5 HSI will replace the GI106 for a CDI? So I can use the G5 HSI w/ the GTN 650 and use my current 106 for the GNC255? Shop advised it best to keep a separate CDI for each nav as a redundancy, or can both just connect to the G5 HSI? Is that advised to use a single HSI for both NAV's Quote
carusoam Posted March 1, 2019 Report Posted March 1, 2019 If you can keep them separate... takes having the real estate... If you need them combined... there is a complex switch that combines the signals from different nav boxes to the one nav display... single throw, quadrillion pole type switch... Find a mid 90s BK equipped plane wher the GPS and nav/com were separate boxes... there is a blue light on when the GPS is the source... there is no indication when the VOR is the source... or the bulb just burned out... then it could be either or...? PP thoughts of a mid 90s BK laden bird... Best regards, -a- Quote
Carbon8 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Report Posted March 1, 2019 Carusoam, So G5 to GTN and my current 106 to GMC255, Original the shop recommended an additional 106 which is strange they wouldn't just advise to connect once source to the 650. Quote
MIm20c Posted March 1, 2019 Report Posted March 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Carbon8 said: Carusoam, So G5 to GTN and my current 106 to GMC255, Original the shop recommended an additional 106 which is strange they wouldn't just advise to connect once source to the 650. I believe the G5 can internally switch between two sources now. However, if it was mine I’d keep the 106 for your 255. No reason whatsoever to have dual 106’s and an hsi. Quote
carusoam Posted March 1, 2019 Report Posted March 1, 2019 The complexity just took a step up... With complexity comes extra responsibility... avoiding distractions while setting up your approach instruments... in IMC... This was a challenge when navigating via GPS then the final waypoint was a Localizer/ILS... It was a two step, tune the radio, and don’t forget to switch the source to the HSI.... Somedays it is really easy to follow the logic, other days there might be a helmet fire going on.... The garmin 530/430 did all the switching automatically within the single box... GPS, VOR, LOC.... Some electronic HSIs are pretty talented at showing multiple vors... See if the G5 is that talented... compare to an Aspen... My interest is mostly having a back-up when Plan A fails... two independent ways to navigate and two ways to get 200’ agl... A WAAS gps and a LOC/ILS serve this function well... but that requires a second display for the day the G5’s electronic bearings wear out... Display 1: Gps, or nav1 (opportunity to forget something) Display 2: VOR head, always nav 2 display 3: I still have an ADF Briefly... have two displays and two navcoms for covering for failures... get one super talented navcom and super talented display for primary navigation, and budget... get a simple navcom and simple display for Plan B (simple helps in times of a helmet fire) avoid mixing sources and displays if possible... especially when the displays look identical... and are next to each other... PP thoughts only... check with your avionics guy for the details... Best regards, -a- Quote
Marauder Posted March 1, 2019 Report Posted March 1, 2019 I believe the G5 can internally switch between two sources now. However, if it was mine I’d keep the 106 for your 255. No reason whatsoever to have dual 106’s and an hsi. I checked the current G5 spec sheet on the Garmin site and didn’t see reference to dual Nav inputs. It looks like you can have the GMU 11 magnetometer feed 2 G5s. That would allow you to buy a second G5 with the HSI feature. Not sure I’d want to be flipping AIs if I had to go to the second G5 for navigation. I wonder if Garmin allows for a throw over switch for Nav source? If allowed, that would be one way to get the G5 to accept two Nav inputs. I would still want to have a separate CDI and not put all my Nav eggs in one basket. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote
MIm20c Posted March 1, 2019 Report Posted March 1, 2019 If you want to have your shop wire the G5 for both sources you can. The G5 software (experimental) has the ability to pick between two sources and provide two bearing arrows on the hsi. However, @Marauder is correct it looks like the certified version is not approved for that yet. Having said that I almost never use that feature on my Aspen. 1 Quote
Marauder Posted March 1, 2019 Report Posted March 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, MIm20c said: If you want to have your shop wire the G5 for both sources you can. The G5 software (experimental) has the ability to pick between two sources and provide two bearing arrows on the hsi. However, @Marauder is correct it looks like the certified version is not approved for that yet. Having said that I almost never use that feature on my Aspen. The only time I use the bearing pointers on my Aspen is when I get one of those "intercept Victor 29" requests or when I checking VOR accuracy per FAR 91.171. But I sure do like and use my secondary HSI capabilities. 1 Quote
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