Pop up TFRs?

[Ned Gravel]

On a flight into Frederick, MD today (KROC EXALL EMI KFDK) (see https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFSWR/history/20181003/1615Z/KROC/KFDK), I was between layers at 6000' near BINNS (17 nm north of EMI) when my 480 and Foreflight both flashed at me that I had violated a TFR.  

Got my attention.  I chose this route to stay away from P-40 / R-4000 so I figured it was somewhere else.

Asked Potomac approach to confirm.  Two calls before he answered and he appeared swamped by something unexpected.  That was half my answer right there.  Then he cleared me direct to Frederick.

Landed at Frederick and my iPhone goes off with a "Presidential Alert" for which "no action is required at this time."

Whew!!!  Nothing like coming south of the border to do business and then find myself in the middle of another war.  

If someone was to ask me, I would say an alert system test exposed some interesting side effects.

[Ned Gravel]

Just got this from our International Code Council folks:

• As many of you may be aware, FEMA will be conducting a nationwide emergency alert system test this afternoon, October 3.  Communications will be sent through cell phones, TV and radio broadcasts. This broadcasting system has been built as a means to warn the public about emergencies, particularly those on the national level.
• We just wanted to take the opportunity to let everyone know that they may receive these communications on their personal or business cell phones. There is nothing to do in response to these test messages. 

That answers the question of "why."

[kortopates]

I got the alert or test on my cell earlier today as well.


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[Marauder]

I’m in a conference in a room with 70 people. It went off for all of us. Was quite amusing since a number people didn’t silence their phones.


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[Hank]

I had two cell phones with me all day  personal and work. Didn't get nothin on neither . . . . . . But I read about this on the news this morning, and was expecting something!

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

I’m in a conference in a room with 70 people. It went off for all of us. Was quite amusing since a number people didn’t silence their phones.


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The emergency alerts default setting on all phones is to break through any silent or do-no-disturb settings.  not all phones even have a setting to change that.

[Ned Gravel]

12 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

The emergency alerts default setting on all phones is to break through any silent or do-no-disturb settings.  not all phones even have a setting to change that.

So.... no taking your phone on a stake-out?

[Tommy]

Massive TFR with no prior warning just for some guy to play some golf with your money.

6 months ago when our PM decided to visit where I work, there was one Tecnam doing the circuit and the "Air Force One" jet had to extend the downwind for separation. Non-towered too. If he'd asked the Tecnam to swing around so it could land early, there would be devastating consequence to his approval rating. 

Democracy comes in many different shapes and forms...

 

[RobertGary1]

Reminds me of all the pilots in LA that were grounded for an hour when a president was circling getting a haircut. He didn’t want to land until the haircut was done. Excluding the name so it doesn’t turn political. He later apologized saying he didn’t realize all planes were grounded including lax. 

-Robert 

[flyboy0681]

10 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Reminds me of all the pilots in LA that were grounded for an hour when a president was circling getting a haircut. He didn’t want to land until the haircut was done. Excluding the name so it doesn’t turn political. He later apologized saying he didn’t realize all planes were grounded including lax. 

-Robert 

Would make an interesting story if only it were true. This fable has stood the test of time more than any other.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-clinton-hairgate/

[Yetti]

15 hours ago, Hank said:

I had two cell phones with me all day  personal and work. Didn't get nothin on neither . . . . . . But I read about this on the news this morning, and was expecting something!

Turn in your Obama Free fone

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

Would make an interesting story if only it were true. This fable has stood the test of time more than any other.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-clinton-hairgate/

Snopes is no longer seen as the authority it once was. But this article from the New York Times quotes the faa. So if it was fake it’s the faa that created it? And the New York Times was one of his biggest supporters in the media . 

“Federal Aviation Administration spokesmen were quoted by The Associated Press as saying that while Air Force One sat on the runway on an indefinite haircut hold, two of the airport's four runways were shut down and some commuter flights scheduled to land were forced to circle instead.”

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/21/us/haircut-grounded-clinton-while-the-price-took-off.html

 

-Robert

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by RobertGary1

[flyboy0681]

19 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Snopes is no longer seen as the authority it once was. But this article from the New York Times quotes the faa. So if it was fake it’s the faa that created it? And the New York Times was one of his biggest supporters in the media . 

“Federal Aviation Administration spokesmen were quoted by The Associated Press as saying that while Air Force One sat on the runway on an indefinite haircut hold, two of the airport's four runways were shut down and some commuter flights scheduled to land were forced to circle instead.”

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/21/us/haircut-grounded-clinton-while-the-price-took-off.html

 

-Robert

 

 

Your response was to use an article that appeared right after the incident. Why not show a followup to the story which appeared months later after some reporters queried the FAA on the situation? That's akin to making a conclusion about a crash using the NTSB's initial findings at the scene and not following up on the report 18 months later.

 

No doubt you will respond to this as fake news. 

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-06-30/news/1993181197_1_air-traffic-air-taxi-passenger-flights

 

[RobertGary1]

35 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

 

Your response was to use an article that appeared right after the incident. Why not show a followup to the story which appeared months later after some reporters queried the FAA on the situation? That's akin to making a conclusion about a crash using the NTSB's initial findings at the scene and not following up on the report 18 months later.

 

No doubt you will respond to this as fake news. 

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-06-30/news/1993181197_1_air-traffic-air-taxi-passenger-flights

 

I only pointed out that it was the faa they quoted. Seems like you have some type of dog in this fight that I don’t. I don’t really care. 

-Robert 

[flyboy0681]

3 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I only pointed out that it was the faa they quoted. Seems like you have some type of dog in this fight that I don’t. I don’t really care. 

-Robert 

Personally, I could care less. We now live in an age where irrefutable facts are promoted as being completely false and as a person who is close to and believes in science, it wants to make my head explode. I'm old school and am proud to choose fact over new fiction. 

[jaylw314]

16 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

So.... no taking your phone on a stake-out?

No, and it didn't help during a visit with a crying patient either

[Marauder]

On a flight into Frederick, MD today (KROC EXALL EMI KFDK) (see https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFSWR/history/20181003/1615Z/KROC/KFDK), I was between layers at 6000' near BINNS (17 nm north of EMI) when my 480 and Foreflight both flashed at me that I had violated a TFR.  
Got my attention.  I chose this route to stay away from P-40 / R-4000 so I figured it was somewhere else.
Asked Potomac approach to confirm.  Two calls before he answered and he appeared swamped by something unexpected.  That was half my answer right there.  Then he cleared me direct to Frederick.
Landed at Frederick and my iPhone goes off with a "Presidential Alert" for which "no action is required at this time."
Whew!!!  Nothing like coming south of the border to do business and then find myself in the middle of another war.  
If someone was to ask me, I would say an alert system test exposed some interesting side effects.

Speaking of pop up TFRs. I have the Lynx 9000 that feeds my Aspens. I remember actually seeing the activation of a TFR once while in flight. It startled me even though I had gotten an email notification that it was coming.


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[jaylw314]

27 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Speaking of pop up TFRs. I have the Lynx 9000 that feeds my Aspens. I remember actually seeing the activation of a TFR once while in flight. It startled me even though I had gotten an email notification that it was coming.

 

 

 

I have Sirius XM weather for my 530W, and during the fires this summer, it showed all the TFR's.  Unfortunately, it seems to display future and past TFR's as well as current ones, so it got pretty crazy.  I could only see them on the map, I couldn't find a way to pull up any info on them through the 530W.  I had to call ATC once to make sure I wasn't flying through an active TFR

[steingar]

Wouldn't it be grand if someone in Congress grew a pair and put forth a law that airspace could only be limited for the purposes of aviation safety?  All these TFRs do nothing to make anyone any safer.  All they do is get in the way of honest tax paying Americans.

[flyboy0681]

I have somewhat evolved on the TFR issue. My home drome lies directly under the presidential TFR and during the winter months the TFR is in use just about every weekend, from November through April. I've learned how to work it and haven't missed a flight since. The only hindrance is practicing approaches, in which case I need to travel a great distance to get to a field which has published approaches. Even flying VFR into and out of the presidential TFR has shown to be relatively easy and straightforward.

 

 

 

 

[PaulM]

22 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

On a flight into Frederick, MD today (KROC EXALL EMI KFDK) (see https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFSWR/history/20181003/1615Z/KROC/KFDK), I was between layers at 6000' near BINNS (17 nm north of EMI) when my 480 and Foreflight both flashed at me that I had violated a TFR.  

I didn't see anyone else say what that is... The warning you received is the VFR 230Kt speed restriction (60 mile ring)  around the SFRA... not a TFR..   The ADSB system alerts it as a TFR since TFR's are all it knows.    You didn't violate anything, and since it is a permanent rule as part of the SFRA the controller wouldn't have anything on a list about it popping up..    You did take the SFRA course to fly within 60 miles of DCA right? 

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/CourseLanding.aspx?cID=405

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, steingar said:

Wouldn't it be grand if someone in Congress grew a pair and put forth a law that airspace could only be limited for the purposes of aviation safety?  All these TFRs do nothing to make anyone any safer.  All they do is get in the way of honest tax paying Americans.

And TFRs should be temporary not permanent. The Micky Mouse "TFR" has been going on for close to 5 years.It even lists the end time as "permanent". 

-Robert

[jaylw314]

6 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

And TFRs should be temporary not permanent. The Micky Mouse "TFR" has been going on for close to 5 years.It even lists the end time as "permanent". 

-Robert

I thought the Disneyland TFR has been going on continuously since 2001?

[Ned Gravel]

3 hours ago, PaulM said:

I didn't see anyone else say what that is... The warning you received is the VFR 230Kt speed restriction (60 mile ring)  around the SFRA... not a TFR..   The ADSB system alerts it as a TFR since TFR's are all it knows.    You didn't violate anything, and since it is a permanent rule as part of the SFRA the controller wouldn't have anything on a list about it popping up..    You did take the SFRA course to fly within 60 miles of DCA right? 

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/CourseLanding.aspx?cID=405

Thanks Paul:

I took the SFRA course in July 2011.  I appreciate that there may be some things related to the SFRA that I am not aware of.  But if you tell me that some system considered my lowly E model to be doing 230 kts, I am all for it.  However the words "TFR" appeared on both my iPad and my 480.  At that point I was just under 20 nm away from the closest point of the SFRA at 6000' and 10 miles outside the 30 nm ring.  Tracon controller's reaction was to have me forget about EMI and proceed direct to KFDK.  I was OK with that.

I am at the FDA today and there appears to have been more than one other unintended consequence of this alarm test.  

[Jerry 5TJ]

If you were cleared IFR why worry about TFRs at all?