Gravel Field Landing (chicken strip, saline valley, ca) in a Mooney

[Dshevick]

Can my mooney handle this?  I have been practice short field techinques, but I am worried about gravel damage to my prop and body.  Thanks

 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Ds.

See if you can find the videos of Bryan and his Mooney on the YouTube channel....

He has a lot of experience flying in and out of unimproved strips...

The airplane may be able to handle it, but that is only half the equation...

People don’t usually want to tackle this rough stuff because the damage of small stones and things is kind of expensive to keep after... accelerate slowly to try to keep stones from passing through the prop disk...

Be familiar with DA, runway and performance, before going out in this... That Cessna landed really long and barely stopped in the allotted space...

realistically the question you asked is fair, but the answer immediately becomes bring a Mooney specific instructor with you the first time you go...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[Mcstealth]

7 minutes ago, Dshevick said:

Can my mooney handle this?  I have been practice short field techinques, but I am worried about gravel damage to my prop and body.  Thanks

 

what model Mooney?

[Dshevick]

actually am looking for one.  either a vintage 65 or a 75-80 M20J

[carusoam]

Search around here for chicken strip... you won’t be the first person to discuss it...

The search function is a pretty helpful device.

So... the answer Then is yes it can handle it... the pilot needs to be up to speed with the plane... it takes time and practice to become one with the machine...

Then look at the cost of maintaining a prop that has a dent in it from stones... the TV YouTube threads are not usually the way to go to get the whole story... props are expensive.  Even for Cessnas with skulls on the side...

Not bad if advertising pays the bills...

Also look up the black rock event... preparations for burning man and clean-up afterwards isn’t something to ignore...

call me old.  My Mooney is used for traveling.  I can’t afford a second one...

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

You’ll likely get nicks in your prop. 

 

-Robert

[Dshevick]

actually am looking for one.  either a vintage 65 or a 75-80 M20J

[Dshevick]

19 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Welcome aboard Ds.

See if you can find the videos of Bryan and his Mooney on the YouTube channel....

He has a lot of experience flying in and out of unimproved strips...

The airplane ma be able to handle it, but that is only half the equation...

 People don’t usually want to tackle this rough stuff because the damage of small stones and things is kind of expensive to keep after... accelerate slowly to try to keep stones from passing through the prop disk...

Be familiar with DA, runway and performance, before going out in this... That Cessna landed really long and barely stopped in the allotted space...

realistically the question you asked is fair, but the answer immediately becomes bring a Mooney specific instructor with you the first time you go...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

I can't find Byran videos, doing a bunch of searches like 'bryan mooney gravel field runway'  any links/usernames?

[Andy95W]

24 minutes ago, Dshevick said:

Can my mooney handle this?  I have been practice short field techinques, but I am worried about gravel damage to my prop and body.  

Your Mooney can handle it, but you'll really have to be on your game.  

BTW, I'd be a lot more worried about the takeoff than the landing.

[Dshevick]

1 minute ago, Andy95W said:

Your Mooney can handle it, but you'll really have to be on your game.  

BTW, I'd be a lot more worried about the takeoff than the landing.

takeoff is downhill, no runup, easy constant throttle up, roll, lift nose as soon possible. rotate when can fly into ground effect, gain speed.. off?

[Bolter]

9 minutes ago, Dshevick said:

I can't find Byran videos, doing a bunch of searches like 'bryan mooney gravel field runway'  any links/usernames?

Check Piperpainter on YouTube.  

[Andy95W]

My opinion really doesn't matter, it sounds like you've prepared yourself well.  I'm just throwing out a general caution against complacency and lack of preparation.   And yeah, I do think your prop will probably get a few dings in it.

[carusoam]

When you own the plane, you are going to find there are going to be a few things that you may want to avoid...

Those don’t come up until you are ready.  Then it becomes your comfort with financial risk of breaking things...

 

to find Bryan... the key words are Piper Painter...

He got the most out of his M20C... then bought a plane that was better suited for that type of work...

 

Let us know what you think after you see his videos...

They are incredibly well planned out.  Not the YT-like fly by the seat of your pants junk...

 

you can see how i’m Pushing you away from the pop tv culture?  Flying is too critical of small mistakes... and expensive when it doesn’t go as planned...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Guest]

I watched the videos of the strip, why would you want to go there?  The risk of damage to your plane outweighs any benefit.

Clarence

[MBDiagMan]

I have a Mooney and a Cessna 140.  It shouldn’t  be difficult to figure out which one is best suited for  landing off pavement.

IiMHO if this is the kind of flying you want to do you have the wrong plane.  A Cessna 180 would be a plane that would handle the load and number of seats and give somewhere near the performance of a Mooney and be a MUCH better choice for gravel or grass strip flying.  You don’t need a Ferrari for this work, you need a 4x4.

Its a case of using the right tool for the right job.

My $0.02,

Edited August 2, 2018 by MBDiagMan

[gsxrpilot]

There is certainly a technique to launching off a gravel strip that can minimize damage to the prop. I've launched my Mooney from the gravel strips at CYYQ, CYGX, and have been in and out of BurningMan (88NV) several times without any prop or other damage to my airplane. 

Just be careful, use proper technique and you'll be fine.

[steingar]

The below is takeoff and landing from 6Y9, a badly occluded 2600 turf strip in the middle of the Michigan Upper Penninsula.

 

[Immelman]

Chicken strip.... one of the most interesting places I've been. Some of the most interesting people I've met, and the most beautiful hot springs I've been to. Its better to go if you're comfortable with public nudity, that is the norm there. It is also the most unforgiving strip have gone into. The runway is about 300 paces long (I am tall with long legs). The width is about as wide as your wingtips are. Your technique must be perfect. Think about that for a moment.

I am not piperpainter but know him.

Do not go unless you know your airplane and are the true master of it.

On short final at the appropriate speed, go around will be unlikely or potentially very hazardous (as you land up a significant slope and would be approaching on the back side of the power curve).

Do not go without a current pirep of the strip. One thunderstorm and it will be rutted out from water.

Do not go in our out unless the wind is perfectly calm on a perfect day. I left at dawn. I arrived at sunset after a perfect day. You'll be flying through an active MOA to get in and out.

Do not go in summer.

Honestly it is a runway more suited for a traditional bush plane.

I went in solo with less than half tanks. I calculated that I would need little more than half the runway, and that was correct. No prop dings. Turning the airplane around at the top end is where you are likely to get dings.

I'd really like to go again, but doubt I will in the Mooney. Not worth the risk, and not the right tool for the job as mentioned above.

IF you are crazy enough to go and survive, bring ice cream, head over to the springs and share it. I guarantee you'll make friends and be well fed

Edited August 2, 2018 by Immelman

[Yetti]

A Mooney removes most all margin for error on this landing.  Other planes.  Bushhawk, Maule, cessna 180 create more margin for errors.  Flying planes is all about creating more options for yourself. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Yetti

[Dshevick]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

The below is takeoff and landing from 6Y9, a badly occluded 2600 turf strip in the middle of the Michigan Upper Penninsula.

 

yes, but this is a grass, not gravel strip

[EricJ]

I've been thinking a Maule would be an excellent second airplane.   My hangar is too small.   :'(

The landing gear on the Mooney is not very compliant, unlike the spring steel gear on the typical Cessnas or the bungeed articulating gear on Cubs, etc.   So even if you aren't worried about prop dings, the bumps will be far more consequential in a Mooney than the typical airplane used for such things.

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

A Mooney removes most all margin for error on this landing. 

A lot of people worry about the landing, but it's the go around and the take off that'll kill you.

[kerry]

I just landed chicken strip last April.  Not in my Mooney but my tail wheel  Bakeng Duece.  I wouldn't call the surface gravel. It's more of a coarse sand.  I think it comes from lava rock.  Your nose wheel will sink in it.  You already know how close the prop is on pavement.  My guess is my mains probably sunk into the runway surface 2-3''.  The surface has a lot of drag on the wheels.  It helps a lot to slow the plane down as you land up hill.  I could definitely the drag on take off. I'm guessing my mains took up 3/4's of the 1300' runway before leaving the surface.  I personally think it would be easier to land my Mooney vs. a tail wheel at chicken strip because you will have better visibility but be prepared to see your prop nicked up. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dshevick]

1 hour ago, Immelman said:

Chicken strip.... one of the most interesting places I've been. Some of the most interesting people I've met, and the most beautiful hot springs I've been to. Its better to go if you're comfortable with public nudity, that is the norm there. It is also the most unforgiving strip have gone into. The runway is about 300 paces long (I am tall with long legs). The width is about as wide as your wingtips are. Your technique must be perfect. Think about that for a moment.

I am not piperpainter but know him.

Do not go unless you know your airplane and are the true master of it.

On short final at the appropriate speed, go around will be unlikely or potentially very hazardous (as you land up a significant slope and would be approaching on the back side of the power curve).

Do not go without a current pirep of the strip. One thunderstorm and it will be rutted out from water.

Do not go in our out unless the wind is perfectly calm on a perfect day. I left at dawn. I arrived at sunset after a perfect day. You'll be flying through an active MOA to get in and out.

Do not go in summer.

Honestly it is a runway more suited for a traditional bush plane.

I went in solo with less than half tanks. I calculated that I would need little more than half the runway, and that was correct. No prop dings. Turning the airplane around at the top end is where you are likely to get dings.

I'd really like to go again, but doubt I will in the Mooney. Not worth the risk, and not the right tool for the job as mentioned above.

IF you are crazy enough to go and survive, bring ice cream, head over to the springs and share it. I guarantee you'll make friends and be well fed

what is 'pirep'? can i see the field well enough with a flyover? is there another source of info?

[Immelman]

Get a recent report from someone who has been there. There is a saline valley board, bush pilot boards etc. 

 

dragging the strip will help see if there's a wild donkey on it, but will you see a rut from water from a thunder shower? I don't know...

I agree with the others above, it's not a good mooney strip. And I say this as someone who is perfectly content to take my plane to grass, to the more friendly Idaho mountain places etc.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Immelman