Sandel Avionics

[PTK]

In all the talk about glass I never hear anything about Sandel and their offerings.

I wonder why that is...

[carusoam]

Wicked expensive light bulb that gets changed out at annual...

Sound familiar?

Best regards,

-a-

[Alan Fox]

Sandel hasn't made the 3308 in 15 years .... They do certified stuff for heavy iron and Helicopters.... Not real big on lite GA stuff ....   But a wonderful company as far as support is concerned.....

[jetdriven]

A year ago installed a SN3308 with the newest software that allows ARINC429 for annunciators on the screen.  It was around three grand laid in or so.  I was doing a full kit of IFR radios and I needed a VOR ILS indicator anyway. The Garman VOR indicator is almost 2 grand used, plus the cost to install it.  At the time the Garmin G5 HS I was not available and to tell you the truth the presentation on the Sandel is better it looks a lot larger than it is.  I don’t get the G5 HSI, it has a lot of wasted space.  From right now for a fresh install I would probably go wirh a G5 HSI  because it’s newer technology and the cost is comparable. 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by jetdriven

[Alan Fox]

I have the Sandel in my Bonanza , and my Mooney before it ,  Until the Aspen , it was the most advanced box out there ...

[Aerodon]

and the Sandel still has better integration than most - DME, ADF, dual GS, GPS etc.  And Arinc 420 heading out to GPS and transponder.  They are pretty inexpensive, and still pretty good.  I'm keeping mine to back up a G500. Nice way of duplicating just about everything on the G500.

 

Don

[Browncbr1]

I was 2 seconds away from buying a 3308, then garmin announced the gad29b.   I just picked up my plane with dual G5s, but haven’t gotten the AP to work yet.    I’m hoping it will get fixed soon and then garmin updates g5 firmware eventually to add some of the features like the 3308.   Yea, there is a lot of wasted screen space.  The HSI should be much bigger

[N6758N]

On 1/5/2018 at 5:31 PM, Browncbr1 said:

I was 2 seconds away from buying a 3308, then garmin announced the gad29b.   I just picked up my plane with dual G5s, but haven’t gotten the AP to work yet.    I’m hoping it will get fixed soon and then garmin updates g5 firmware eventually to add some of the features like the 3308.   Yea, there is a lot of wasted screen space.  The HSI should be much bigger

I'm looking at this option now as well Craig. My HSI went belly up on the way back from AVL last week. I can get a 3308 for less than a G5, but my concerns are longevity and panel space. The Sandel is like 10.5 inches long. My NSD-1000 is a little over 8 and its a tight squeeze at that. Anybody have an Aspen display they want to sell...?

[Marauder]

I'm looking at this option now as well Craig. My HSI went belly up on the way back from AVL last week. I can get a 3308 for less than a G5, but my concerns are longevity and panel space. The Sandel is like 10.5 inches long. My NSD-1000 is a little over 8 and its a tight squeeze at that. Anybody have an Aspen display they want to sell...?

Are you telling me Sanford doesn’t have one in his stock?


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[Browncbr1]

1 hour ago, N6758N said:

I'm looking at this option now as well Craig. My HSI went belly up on the way back from AVL last week. I can get a 3308 for less than a G5, but my concerns are longevity and panel space. The Sandel is like 10.5 inches long. My NSD-1000 is a little over 8 and its a tight squeeze at that. Anybody have an Aspen display they want to sell...?

Terry, The thing about the sandel is that it’s not a bad option if are ok using non-certified bulbs, but the same bulb with the certified stamp costs $200 vs $2.  Also, if you get a sandel, you will want the later firmware version which allows vertical guidance waas GS presentation.   The firmware update cost is $1700 from sandel.     It’s rare to find one with the updated firmware and they usually want a pretty penny for them.  Other than this, you would still be needing to put trust in a remote gyro.   So, there are multiple points of failure.   

The thing that the G5 HSI does that the 3308 can’t is revert to backup attitude display.  Hopefully garmin will continue to add more functionality as time goes by, as they have been.  One thing I don’t like is the placement of the desired heading right above the knob.  You can’t see it while you are turning the heading bug because your knuckles are in the way.  They should move it up so it follows the actual bug around the rose.

 

a dual G5 setup is roughly half the cost of an Aspen and it is primary replacement.

 

[Marcopolo]

  Sandel makes a 3500 model that uses LED light technology and it has a reversionary mode for Attitude indication in case of vacuum or attitude  failure.  Should have mine installed by mid year, will let you know how it goes.

 

http://www.sandel.com/sandel-avionics-products/item/helicopter/sn3500-3-ati-primary-navigation-display

 

Ron

[jetdriven]

I tried to buy one but the eBay bid went to 7000$.  I stuck with my 1400$ SN3308. 

[Marcopolo]

6 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

I tried to buy one but the eBay bid went to 7000$.  I stuck with my 1400$ SN3308. 

Yikes,  I hope the person I bought mine from isn't reading this!!!

[Marcopolo]

1 minute ago, PTK said:

It was my impression that the 3500 doesn't fit in our panel? 

  The 3500 uses the exact same bracket and bezel for mounting as the 3308.  During my last avionics upgrade we test fit it in the 525 PNI location without issue.  Building the harness for it now and planning the install for late spring - early summer.

 

Ron

[Browncbr1]

Yea, I had a 3308 sourced complete with flux detector and remote gyro but with the older firmware for $1000 locally, but decided on a new G5 hsi instead.  Sandel will upgrade a 3308 to LED screen, but it’s not cheap.    

[PTK]

2 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

Terry, The thing about the sandel is that it’s not a bad option if are ok using non-certified bulbs, but the same bulb with the certified stamp costs $200 vs $2.  Also, if you get a sandel, you will want the later firmware version which allows vertical guidance waas GS presentation.   The firmware update cost is $1700 from sandel.     It’s rare to find one with the updated firmware and they usually want a pretty penny for them.  Other than this, you would still be needing to put trust in a remote gyro.   So, there are multiple points of failure.   

The thing that the G5 HSI does that the 3308 can’t is revert to backup attitude display.  Hopefully garmin will continue to add more functionality as time goes by, as they have been.  One thing I don’t like is the placement of the desired heading right above the knob.  You can’t see it while you are turning the heading bug because your knuckles are in the way.  They should move it up so it follows the actual bug around the rose.

 

a dual G5 setup is roughly half the cost of an Aspen and it is primary replacement.

 

The thing I don't like about the G5 is the HSI diameter appears to be too small in relation to the box. This in contrast to the Sandel which maximizes the HSI. The G5 has all that glass which is dead glass around the HSI. I don't know G's logic here. Maybe there's a good reason.

Oh well...I'm keeping my swiss watch KI 525 until something new comes around.

Disclosure: I have not seen a G5 HSI in person. 

[Browncbr1]

43 minutes ago, PTK said:

The thing I don't like about the G5 is the HSI diameter appears to be too small in relation to the box. This in contrast to the Sandel which maximizes the HSI. The G5 has all that glass which is dead glass around the HSI. I don't know G's logic here. Maybe there's a good reason.

Oh well...I'm keeping my swiss watch KI 525 until something new comes around.

Disclosure: I have not seen a G5 HSI in person. 

I agree, but that said, the smaller size doesn’t hinder its use.   I’m hoping they designed it that way because they will add other features along the way planned to use that extra space.  I sent them an email with some feedback and inquiry. 

[MIm20c]

The real benefit to the G5 is future AP integration.  Getting rid of a decades old unit and replacing it with a new digital unit will be great.  If my stec dies I’m planning on putting a g5 next to my aspen so the gfc500 can be installed and I’ll dump my vac system. 

Installed cost between the aspen and g5’s is about 20-25% more for the aspen. 

[Browncbr1]

Update, today I got my AP working with the G5.  The shop missed connecting two wires, but luckily they had already run extra wires, so they just needed to be terminated.  All I can say is wow.   The accuflite coupled with the G5 is awesome.   It is smooth, doesn’t under or overshoot and is solid.   I flew north and dialed in a hold at a nearby fix and hit gpss and away I went.   There is a lot of integrated data showing up on AI G5 from the HSI, like the heading bug which is nice.    Then came back and shot an LPV to minimums doing nothing but adjusting power and dropping gear.  There was a few knots cross wind that resulted in about a 5-7 degree crab...   I’m happy!

[MIm20c]

@Browncbr1 I’m amazed at gpss and LPV approaches.  The G5 shows the vertical and horizontal cdi during the approach I think. Does the hsi show the vertical profile as well?

@jetdriven does the Sandel show the vertical glide path during the approach?

[jetdriven]

Yes the Sandel shows the LOC and GS. I prefer the straight HSI wirh the two large CDI bars. You can also do map mode and expanded scale which shows then on the edge. 

GPSS is an option in the Sn3500 but the SN3308 get it’s from a DAC GDC31.  

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by jetdriven

[Browncbr1]

The sandel also has an auto slew function.  

The G5 does not have the large CDI vertical bar. The Vnav indicator is the small slider on the right.   I prefer a wide bar and it is something I’ve asked garmin to make available.  

 

[Browncbr1]

3 hours ago, jetdriven said:

 

This is how I have my Aera display setup.  The new firmware now shows curves at turns and holds.   Previous firmware wouldn’t display a hold like above.  

[jetdriven]

I just did the newest update to my Aera660. Used the Mapmx format. Now it mirrors the GTN750 

[Marauder]

The sandel also has an auto slew function.  
The G5 does not have the large CDI vertical bar. The Vnav indicator is the small slider on the right.   I prefer a wide bar and it is something I’ve asked garmin to make available.  
 

The autoslew capability is often overlooked and under appreciated. I can’t remember the last time I needed to dial in the CDI on the Aspen.


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