Marauder Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said: I checked the paperwork this morning, the add on 10 gallon cells adds 7.3 pounds to the empty weight. The original 54 gallon bladders added 29.7 so the total difference is 37 pounds. I seldom would have any need for the extra fuselage. Particularly since it weighs something and add something to drag. (I drive a Crossfire. 2 seats. 1 more than I need most of the time. And I have a Dakota which I drive less than 2000 miles a year.) A vehicle should fit the mission. Helps that you fly small people around. Quote
mike_elliott Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 Ill bet if you ask any of those ladies you fly around Bob, they would all tell you the extra 10" in the rear is wonderful My point earlier was to validate Allan's point about the longer legs of the stock F vs. a Stock "super" 21 would give it a speed advantage when you dont have to stop because of fuel. I summize this is why you are installing the 10 Gal add on, so you dont have to stop on one of your missions, thus picking up speed in your super. Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 13, 2017 Author Report Posted December 13, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 4:07 PM, mike_elliott said: Ill bet if you ask any of those ladies you fly around Bob, they would all tell you the extra 10" in the rear is wonderful My point earlier was to validate Allan's point about the longer legs of the stock F vs. a Stock "super" 21 would give it a speed advantage when you dont have to stop because of fuel. I summize this is why you are installing the 10 Gal add on, so you dont have to stop on one of your missions, thus picking up speed in your super. I understand your point. But... it's only 5" difference in rear seat leg room. The only concession that I'm prepared to make is that if an owner/pilot is over 6' tall and plans to transport 4 adults she probably would be able to tell the difference between a C and a J. I'm adding the 10 gallons exactly because I subscribe to the principle that you cannot have too much fuel on board... all right, unless you're on fire. My very last trip was 5.6 hours and 46.1 gallons. Landing with only 7 gallons on board violated my personal minimums. And, even though I did it intentionally in CAVU conditions because I was going to drain the tanks for the bladder install, it still was not pleasant. And I had to run at 8.0 gph to keep from making a fuel stop. 1 Quote
1964-M20E Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 So Bob how much for the bladder kit? and for he install? Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 13, 2017 Author Report Posted December 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said: So Bob how much for the bladder kit? and for he install? The add on kit is $3250. Griggs' installed price is $4700 which implies $1450 labor. Quote
HRM Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 52 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said: My very last trip was 5.6 hours and 46.1 gallons. Landing with only 7 gallons on board violated my personal minimums. Jeez-lou-eez! That 5.6 hours violates my bladder's personal minimum, and I am not talking fuel . Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 13, 2017 Author Report Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, HRM said: Jeez-lou-eez! That 5.6 hours violates my bladder's personal minimum, and I am not talking fuel . http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/travel-john-pack-of-18.html 1 1 Quote
jetdriven Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 Pee in a bottle save 24$. Or fly dehydrated and save that money without buying a travel john or a lady J adapter. Quote
jetdriven Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) . Edited December 14, 2017 by jetdriven Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 14, 2017 Author Report Posted December 14, 2017 4 hours ago, jetdriven said: Pee in a bottle save 24$. Or fly dehydrated and save that money without buying a travel john or a lady J adapter. Ain't for me, I have a Prestone jug but the little lady... Quote
Marauder Posted December 14, 2017 Report Posted December 14, 2017 15 hours ago, jetdriven said: Pee in a bottle save 24$. Or fly dehydrated and save that money without buying a travel john or a lady J adapter. The problem flying dehydrated is that you will save the $24, but spend $18,000 in hospital bills treating you for DVTs. 1 Quote
Marauder Posted December 14, 2017 Report Posted December 14, 2017 11 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: Ain't for me, I have a Prestone jug but the little lady... Go diapers Bob. New generation of Depends are thinner and hold more. Test pilots: Bennett and Marauder. 2 2 Quote
steingar Posted December 14, 2017 Report Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Marauder said: Go diapers Bob. New generation of Depends are thinner and hold more. Test pilots: Bennett and Marauder. A little too much information there... 1 Quote
HRM Posted December 15, 2017 Report Posted December 15, 2017 You are welcome guys. Thread successfully thrown south... Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted December 15, 2017 Report Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/9/2017 at 6:20 PM, Marauder said: Don’t forget if you tanker up, you’ll be carrying 60 pounds plus the weight of the new bags. Might nip a little off of your speed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Yes, I noticed that too once I installed the additional bags. My speed suffered a bit. Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 15, 2017 Author Report Posted December 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Oscar Avalle said: Yes, I noticed that too once I installed the additional bags. My speed suffered a bit. I only take pics of TAS for MooneySpace while alone and lightly loaded. 1 Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 15, 2017 Author Report Posted December 15, 2017 We got the bladders in and the holes punched in the old cells for the connector hardware. We should get to finish up the cells installation today. The EDM is scheduled to be back from JPI Monday and we can install the CiES sender and calibrate them. Back in the air next week... Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted December 15, 2017 Report Posted December 15, 2017 I only take pics of TAS for MooneySpace while alone and lightly loaded. I too... but then we have the Caravan...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 19, 2017 Author Report Posted December 19, 2017 The EDM came back from JPI today. I reinstalled it and checked out the updates, if you have a 930 you might be interested in the screen pics of revs etc. Meanwhile Lynn continues to finish up the bladder install. We expect to finish tomorrow and add fuel and calibrate the new CiES. I also picked up my front seats. While the plane was down my local trim shop replaced the 3" foam on the seat portion with 5" of much firmer foam. Dave was able to stretch the leather to fit! I'm kicking myself for not doing this 5 years ago when we did the seats the first time. 1 Quote
mike_elliott Posted December 19, 2017 Report Posted December 19, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 5:19 PM, Bob_Belville said: The add on kit is $3250. Griggs' installed price is $4700 which implies $1450 labor. and the CEIS senders were ? (It pays to join the Mooney Summit Presidents club!) Congrats again, kind Bob, Thanks CEIS! Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 19, 2017 Author Report Posted December 19, 2017 1 hour ago, mike_elliott said: and the CEIS senders were ? (It pays to join the Mooney Summit Presidents club!) Congrats again, kind Bob, Thanks CEIS! Free! Thanks Scott Philiben @fuellevel and MooneySummit. (well, free except that JPI nicked me $350 to convert the EDM 930 to interface to the digital CiES which included a new harness.) Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 21, 2017 Author Report Posted December 21, 2017 A little to my surprise I was able to fill the new bladders with 64 usable (plus 2.5 unusable) fuel, Calibration of the new CiES level sensors with the updated EDM 930 went quickly with no issues. We've got to put the interior back together and hope to test fly tomorrow! 4 Quote
Bob_Belville Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Posted December 22, 2017 It's a wrap, Romeo Whiskey is back in my hangar. I still need to reinstall the interior side panels and the seats and we're ready to go. With a one hour plus reserve we'll have a range of 900 nm LOP or 800 nm ROP! The EDM display was updated and there's a new bar graph for remaining fuel while the fuel quantity shares a bar. Interestingly, the CiES detected 1 gallon burn even though there's only a single float per side in the lowest of 4 bladder cells. Magic. 2 Quote
mike_elliott Posted December 22, 2017 Report Posted December 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said: It's a wrap, Romeo Whiskey is back in my hangar. I still need to reinstall the interior side panels and the seats and we're ready to go. With a one hour plus reserve we'll have a range of 900 nm LOP or 800 nm ROP! The EDM display was updated and there's a new bar graph for remaining fuel while the fuel quantity shares a bar. Interestingly, the CiES detected 1 gallon burn even though there's only a single float per side in the lowest of 4 bladder cells. Magic. All you need now is that extra 10" and the extra GW increase....Looks good Bob!! 1 Quote
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