Garmin G5 vs Aspen

[aidanf]

Given that the G5 can now provide everything that a autopilot needs can we expect to see a little bit more price flexibility from Aspen - which up to today were the only retrofittable glass cockpit substitutes capable of driving an autopilot

?

http://kitplanes2.com/blog/2017/03/garmin-introduces-the-g5-electronic-flight-instrument-as-a-dghsi-in-certificated-aircraft/

[carqwik]

My read is that only the HSI/DG is ok for primary nav if paired with select Garmin Nav/Com/ GPS units only....no AI approval as primary. 

[mooniac15u]

5 minutes ago, carqwik said:

My read is that only the HSI/DG is ok for primary nav if paired with select Garmin Nav/Com/ GPS units only....no AI approval as primary. 

Approval as a primary AI was announced last year. 

[Godfather]

The certified G5 does not output to any type of AP.  Aspen still has the edge there. 

[smccray]

And per a post from Beechtalk, the heading bug doesn't output to an autopilot either.

[Brandontwalker]

1 hour ago, smccray said:

And per a post from Beechtalk, the heading bug doesn't output to an autopilot either.

If that is true, it would be worthless for my purposes. 

[KSMooniac]

I think Aspen breathed a sigh of relief today.

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[Drumstick]

3 hours ago, Brandontwalker said:

If that is true, it would be worthless for my purposes. 

If you look at the install manual for the G5 there is only one output and its RS232.  I was hoping for an output that would work with an STEC.

[Brandontwalker]

45 minutes ago, Drumstick said:

If you look at the install manual for the G5 there is only one output and its RS232.  I was hoping for an output that would work with an STEC.

Exactly.  I would need the bug to communicate with the STEC and I would still need an external GPSS.  Adding up the numbers, the Aspen is a more realistic choice for me.  Garmin needs a product that will directly compete with the Aspen, but has missed the mark so far.

[Drumstick]

52 minutes ago, Brandontwalker said:

Exactly.  I would need the bug to communicate with the STEC and I would still need an external GPSS.  Adding up the numbers, the Aspen is a more realistic choice for me.  Garmin needs a product that will directly compete with the Aspen, but has missed the mark so far.

I'm not sure they missed the mark as the pure majority of GA is not about logging miles cross country like  most of us like to do.  The G5s are no-brainer replacements for any dying AI/DGs that don't have an autopilot requirement.  

[ArtVandelay]

Exactly.  I would need the bug to communicate with the STEC and I would still need an external GPSS.  Adding up the numbers, the Aspen is a more realistic choice for me.  Garmin needs a product that will directly compete with the Aspen, but has missed the mark so far.

I have external GPSS, you can get them for STECs for 2 AMUs I think, so that just leaves the heading bug...but is that an analog interface, the G5 is all digital?

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, Brandontwalker said:

Exactly.  I would need the bug to communicate with the STEC and I would still need an external GPSS.  Adding up the numbers, the Aspen is a more realistic choice for me.  Garmin needs a product that will directly compete with the Aspen, but has missed the mark so far.

I think Garmin already has a product that competes with Aspen... the G500. I'm getting an Aspen installed right now. I debated for some time between the Aspen and the G500. I decided on the Aspen because I was able to get one used and I could put in a single panel much cheaper than the two panel Aspen or G500.

For our cross country birds, autopilots give a huge advantage. So even if I didn't have an autopilot in a Mooney, I wouldn't put in an AI or HSI what couldn't drive one just in the event I was to eventually add one.

[Brandontwalker]

I think Garmin already has a product that competes with Aspen... the G500. I'm getting an Aspen installed right now. I debated for some time between the Aspen and the G500. I decided on the Aspen because I was able to get one used and I could put in a single panel much cheaper than the two panel Aspen or G500.
For our cross country birds, autopilots give a huge advantage. So even if I didn't have an autopilot in a Mooney, I wouldn't put in an AI or HSI what couldn't drive one just in the event I was to eventually add one.

That's like a Corvette vs Ferrari. Corvette will nearly match the Ferrari's performance in every way, but the Ferrari comes at a 10x premium. Again, Garmin does not have a direct competitor to the Aspen.


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[Zwaustin]

I prefer the Aspen compared to the G5, just seems like the better choice all in. I enjoyed the Aspen 1000 PFD for the 260 hours I flew with it. I now have a G600 and many other things and am even more satisfied with that. 

[Godfather]

8 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Am I correct in these understandings?

Jim

Looks good to me.  The G5 HSI has two prices depending on if you want nav data from panel mount units.  The combo price Garmin listed is a starting at price...not sure what the total will be. 

Trek said in another thread he needed to go talk to the lawyers or tech support about future AP outputs. My guess is the unit is compatible with Garmin servos which they may certify in the next couple of years...

I find the HSI is really nice to use...not sure I could go without it. Sometimes the Aspen dealers have reconditioned pro models for 7 amu if I'm remembering that correctly. Might be a good way to go.

[bradp]

So a reverse GPSS autopilot coupler would be needed to convert the digital RS232 out to a analog heading signal?

 

 

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[KSMooniac]

I don't think the G5 is using RS232... It is a bus system likely running their proprietary data streams, hence the restriction on what can be hooked up.

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[Marauder]

So a reverse GPSS autopilot coupler would be needed to convert the digital RS232 out to a analog heading signal?
 
 
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Yes and that is probably the reason the G5 isn't able to control an autopilot. The Aspen uses either an EA 100 or an ACU interface box to do the digital to analog conversion needed for these autopilots (King, Century, STEC).


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[Drumstick]

13 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I don't think the G5 is using RS232... It is a bus system likely running their proprietary data streams, hence the restriction on what can be hooked up.

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From the install manual:

 

1.5.1.2 RS-232

The G5 has one RS-232 channel that may be used to output and/or receive data from another device. Refer to Section 1.8.4.13 for detailed information.

[KSMooniac]

From the install manual:

 

1.5.1.2 RS-232
The G5 has one RS-232 channel that may be used to output and/or receive data from another device. Refer to Section 1.8.4.13 for detailed information.

That excerpt is from the experimental installation manual, not the certified version we get at twice the price. The HSI manual isn't posted yet, but I reviewed the EFIS version and there is a single RS-232 connection available, so I stand corrected. It is only for INPUT of Aviation data or MapMx data from a GTN or GNS navigator, with no output functionality.

I read yesterday that only the CAN bus connection was available for the HSI box, but without the manual I can't say for sure.

Ideally the CAN bus architecture would allow some future capability with a software upgrade...either direct connection to a Garmin autopilot, or perhaps a converter box that can talk to legacy stuff.

Today's version, though, is a non-starter for most of us here I'm afraid. It might be attractive vs a regular CDI, but in my case I can't remove my DG since it is needed for my STEC.

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[Drumstick]

3 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

Today's version, though, is a non-starter for most of us here I'm afraid. It might be attractive vs a regular CDI, but in my case I can't remove my DG since it is needed for my STEC.

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Same here...booo

[KSMooniac]

I'm on a thread over at Beechtalk too on the subject, and just learned that these units offer full reversionary capability if you hook up the GPS RS-232 connection and pitot-static lines to both units. That is very cool...so hopefully they unlock autopilot integration soon.

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[Guest]

I take care of a S35 Bonanza which has an Aspen coupled with a Brittain autopilot and it works fine.

Clarence

[cnoe]

What's crazy is (I believe) that there's a HUGE market for something like this that's "fully functional " and that these companies could generate significant revenues on such devices if they were affordable and would integrate with existing hardware.

If the G5s would drive my Century AP at 5 AMU I'd order the setup and ditch my vacuum system entirely. Or if the Aspen Pro wasn't 10 years old and 11 AMU I'd possibly be interested in that.

Times are changing and Dynon or somebody is going to steal a bunch of Garmin's market share if they aren't careful.


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[RobertGary1]

Not much room to complain about the G5 when its only $2k when certified as a primary attitude. Can't get a mechanical electric AI for that. Perhaps most features will come later in the certified unit.

 

-Robert