Dilema

[ChristianGodin]

There is an Ovation for sale, a 2000 that I made an offer. The hic is that the airplane is a repossess and did not fly for the last 3 years. The seller don't want to pay to have it in a flying condition.  This means that I have to do the prebuy at his home airport with someone that is not a Mooney Service Center. Savvy did not realy look at it but is very negative and does not offer any trace of solutions. I think I offered a price below the market value an Ovation in a normal flying condition. 

What do you think?

[neilpilot]

You don't mention the location.  I'd consider contacting a Mooney savvy (not Savvy) mechanic, possibly from a MSC, to see what it would cost to travel to the aircraft for an abbreviated prebuy.

[Guest]

The eastern Canada MSC might be able to help you. 

Clarence

[Andy95W]

1 minute ago, M20Doc said:

The eastern Canada MSC might be able to help you. 

Clarence

I hear those guys do nice work.

[ChristianGodin]

Cheese, these are a begging o a solution...

Neilpilot, you are talking about a Mooney Savvy mechanic. What is this. For me Savvy is Savvy. Is there 2 organisations? 

[Hank]

Just now, ChristianGodin said:

Cheese, these are a begging o a solution...

Neilpilot, you are talking about a Mooney Savvy mechanic. What is this. For me Savvy is Savvy. Is there 2 organisations? 

No, he means get a mechanic who really knows Mooneys to check this one out. You don't want to revive a hangar queen . . . The whole purpose of the pre-buy is to protect your wallet. The person best able to do that is someone who is savvy to the quirks and problems endemic to Mooneys, which ones may be easily and quickly corrected, and which ones are big enough boogers that you want to avoid.

[carusoam]

The IO550 has a better location for it's cam to help avoid corrosion issues, but it isn't corrosion proof...

Three years is a long time if it wasn't protected.  There may be years of low flying time and minimum maintenance that proceeded the last three years.  Read the logs to see where the use ended.

Repossessed planes are not known for the lavish maintenance that they deserve.  Set your price accordingly.

PP thoughts that come to mind.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

6 hours ago, carusoam said:

The IO550 has a better location for it's cam to help avoid corrosion issues, but it isn't corrosion proof...

Three years is a long time if it wasn't protected.  There may be years of low flying time and minimum maintenance that proceeded the last three years.  Read the logs to see where the use ended.

Repossessed planes are not known for the lavish maintenance that they deserve.  Set your price accordingly.

PP thoughts that come to mind.

Best regards,

-a-

We change a lot of TCM lifters due to corrosion pitting, despite TCM sb which says they are OK for continued service.  They are just as prone to corrosion as Lycoming lifters, the only advantage is that they can be changed without engine removal.

Clarence

[Ftlausa]

Adjust price to assume an O/H.  Three years sitting probably equals pitting.  Also expect a decent amount of deferred maintenance items since its a repo situation. 

[1964-M20E]

Since it has not flown in 3 years it needs an annual or ferry permit to fly it.  Find a knowledge IA that has worked on Mooney's and see how much for an annual inspection.  That is open up the plane inspect it, grease and lube all parts necessary etc.  No repairs or other work to be done.  See if present owner will split that cost as part of your pre-buy.  That way if the sale goes through you have a fresh annual by your MX.  AW issues should be the responsibility of the present owner or negotiated and other squawks negotiated between you and present owner.

 

my  $0.02

 

 

[mooniac15u]

15 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

Since it has not flown in 3 years it needs an annual or ferry permit to fly it.  Find a knowledge IA that has worked on Mooney's and see how much for an annual inspection.  That is open up the plane inspect it, grease and lube all parts necessary etc.  No repairs or other work to be done.  See if present owner will split that cost as part of your pre-buy.  That way if the sale goes through you have a fresh annual by your MX.  AW issues should be the responsibility of the present owner or negotiated and other squawks negotiated between you and present owner.

 

my  $0.02

 

 

The OP said, "The hic is that the airplane is a repossess and did not fly for the last 3 years. The seller don't want to pay to have it in a flying condition."

Sounds like an as-is, where-is kind of deal.

[M20F-1968]

Try contacting Brian Kendrick to see if he would go do a pre-buy or an annual.  You can PM me if you need his contact, or send me your contact and I will put the two of you together.

John Breda

[rbridges]

1 minute ago, mooniac15u said:

The OP said, "The hic is that the airplane is a repossess and did not fly for the last 3 years. The seller don't want to pay to have it in a flying condition."

Sounds like an as-is, where-is kind of deal.

it would have to be a smoking deal for me to buy it.  Assuming the rest of the plane passes inspection, I'd be very concerned about potential engine issues.

[1964-M20E]

33 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

The OP said, "The hic is that the airplane is a repossess and did not fly for the last 3 years. The seller don't want to pay to have it in a flying condition."

Sounds like an as-is, where-is kind of deal.

Ok I saw tha but it didn't  really register.

 

If you can get the writ amount i.e. what the debtor owes the bank you at lease know where the bank want to be.  If that is suitably beneath the comparable values for a similar plane to cover an engine overhaul and other possible issues then it maybe worth the effort.  If not make and offer with a run out non running engine overhaul and see if they bite if you are happy with that route.  It is a gamble to some extend but if you have enough play room for an engine then you most likely will be okay unless it has been sitting in a slop hole for the past 3 years.

Depending on how much is owed to the bank and how long it has been in default will influence how willing they are to deal with you.

[Bob_Belville]

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves.

My first question is: who owns the airplane? It's a repo; is it owned by the lender? Are there any other liens or taxes due? If the seller is an institution is there someone in a position to negotiate? Does that person know aircraft? Before I contemplated spending money doing inspections, pulling ferry permits, and considering repairs I'd want to know that I am dealing with someone in a position to deal.

If I was assured that the title was, or could be, clear and that I'm talking to a willing and able seller willing to consider a legitimate offer then I might spring for a mechanic to do enough of an inspection to 1) tell me I should 1) walk away or 2) arm me with ammunition to make an offer backed by a list of what I anticipated I, or any other sucker, was going to have to spend immediately and in the first year or 2. Since you've already been told that the seller understands the plane would be worth more if it were airworthy and they prefer to sell it as is, ISTM a buyer should start with a wholesale price for make/model/equipment/engine time, etc. and discount that number for all the possible contingencies. Then deduct a sizable GOK* factor.   

Sounds like fun... if you have the time and the experience to wade the alligator swamp.   

 

*God Only Knows

[mooniac15u]

Is this the aircraft we're discussing?

http://www.commonwealthaircraft.com/new-arrivals/2000-mooney-m20r-ovation.html

 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

Is this the aircraft we're discussing?

http://www.commonwealthaircraft.com/new-arrivals/2000-mooney-m20r-ovation.html

 

That engine is already run out, 1749 hours! And it's listed at retail with a good engine . . . 'Nuff said.

[M016576]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

That engine is already run out, 1749 hours! And it's listed at retail with a good engine . . . 'Nuff said.

I wouldn't say that it's listed at retail- with the avionics and TKS, it's a little expensive compared to the other Ovations based on the run out motor- but not retail.  Unless I'm way out on the ovation market.  I think 150 would be about fair as an offer.  Looks like comparable ovations with a newer motor (not even brand new) are selling for over 200.  Nothing I've seen less than 200 has all that glass in it.

not saying it's for me, (out of my price range to get the O/H) just saying it might be worth exploring.

Edited November 3, 2016 by M016576

[Hank]

I looked briefly at moving to an R around 2011-2012; this one is priced right where I was looking, probably with a little more glass, offset by > 500 extra hours. To me, it's high for what it is.

What's a "good deal"? When both people are satisfied. He will find a buyer sooner or later, at one price or another, and both will be satisfied if not happy.

In the meantime, enjoy your hunt!

[thinwing]

I think it's priced pretty close with the dual garmin wass ,King 225 digital ap and tks ( fiki I assume).with a garmin 500 It's not listed but it should also have a stormscope..prop was done 400 hrs ago so allowing 50 k for overhaul is putting 210 k for this with fresh engine...I don't see a 2000 ovation with a fresh engine going for any where near that with similar equipment.

[orionflt]

quick look at this and I have to say it is priced high, it is an "as is" purchase with a TBO engine, it has sat for 3 yrs (not sure if it was in or out side). prop is mid time at 1300 hours (sitting for 3 yrs) out of annual so you cant test fly it. too many variables to give it market value. my instincts say maybe the 140k range but i would want to see the log books.

Brian