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New RR500 Turboprop engine in the Mooney

M20BE

By M20BE
in Modern Mooney Discussion

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KSMooniac Grand Master

KSMooniac

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I wish Jennifer Mitchell lived in Kansas!  I would *love* to meet her...but there is no way this Texas boy is ever moving to California.  :)


I'm an aero engineer and have worked at Cirrus and Columbia for short stints, then Boeing and now Spirit AeroSystems (the old Boeing-Wichita commercial division).  My specialty is composite structures, and I have years of factory support experience dealing with composite production problems.  I promise you that factory production with prepreg systems and  quality tooling is *far* different than your Cozy and EZ experience.  The only thing they have in common is some chemistry!  Assuming you design it well *for* composite materials, then you can really drastically cut the labor for fabrication *and* assembly.  Hopefully more than enough to offset the higher price of the raw materials.  In this day and age, it is easy to do.  I am very confident that Cirrus/Diamond/Cessna man-hours per plane are a fraction of what Mooney does.  Today it is the labor hours that are keeping Mooney prices up, and I really don't see any way to drastically reduce them to the point where they could do a $300k MSE unless they moved out of the country.


Mooney very well might have resisted any efforts to iron out inefficiencies in their production line...I have no idea.  I just feel at the end of the day there are too many welds, too many rivets, too much goopy sealant, etc. to get their man-hours down to a Cirrus/Diamond/Cessna level.  Hopefully I'm wrong though!  If companies like Porsche and Cigarette boats can keep going, then so should Mooney!

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aviatoreb
aviatoreb

Bump this thread.   Now that Mooney is back in business.....  How about finishing that RR500 powered Mooney project?

carusoam
carusoam

My time line has a delay in it.... If they start building it today, I will be looking at it second hand in 15 years... Good things are worth the wait... Best regards, -a-

Seth
Seth

Good Bumb.  An update on the RR500 project would be very neat.    If they built a new small aircraft out of composite with the Mooney mentality, why not build a composite structure around the RR500?

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M20BE Enthusiast

M20BE

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George, Thanks for your toughts on how Mooney could improve their business :


 


1. I find the remake of their current website good enough! Maybe your writing was before the remake of their site ? 


2. I do not believe Mooney will get more customers because they have a BRS fitted, the pilots who fly a Mooney don't want the extra weight of this parachute that might not work at all when you would need it. 


3. Cirrus has a marketing budget that is 50x bigger than Mooney's, as many people said, Cirrus is a marketing machine, real pilots don't buy Cirrus planes. I personally hate the plastic sh*t. 


4. A stripped version with a io-360 and a G600 could maybe work, but making a new plane who has a lower margin would not work IMHO 


5. a 6 seater Pressurised with the RR R500 engine could be a winner, price it at 1M$ with a MTOW below 1999kg and you have a real winner. Just like the JetpropDLX is, it would be a compatitor for a Meridian. even if they just bring out a 4 seater non-pressurised R500 turboprop for a price of around 500k$ that could be a winner too. The price of the R500 is to be set slightly above the price of a TSIO-550 (only 20.000$more some sources say) 

mooniac58 Veteran

mooniac58

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Quote: M20BE

Ah sorry :-)

PS: we need emicons !!

 We have emicons CoolTongue out

Always have actually. Use the little smily button on the toolbar of the post editor.  Note that you won't have this option with the Quick Reply box at the bottom of the topic - you need to use the full editor from clicking "Reply" or "Quote"

Wink

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mooniac58 Veteran

mooniac58

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Quote: M20BE

Thanks, could you add 'QUOTE' there also please ? I usually copy paste some text between 'quote' marks

 I don't 100% understand this one.  You want a button to just add quote marks...like " and "?

Thre is already a link by each post to quote the other poster (like I used above to quote your post).  But I am not sure if that is what you are referring to...

 

NWI_Pilot Rookie

NWI_Pilot

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Was there a timeframe that Mooney had in mind on certifying this new engine/airframe?  I guess RR needs to get it certified, and Mooney needs to design an airframe first right?

Mcstealth Grand Master

Mcstealth

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Okay, what do you make of this when it comes to Mooney? RR wants this powerplant to operate 13fl to 15fl, certified to 22fl. Kind of makes you go "hmmmmmm."  


 


McStealth

RobertoTohme Collaborator

RobertoTohme

Posted
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Quote: Mcstealth

Okay, what do you make of this when it comes to Mooney? RR wants this powerplant to operate 13fl to 15fl, certified to 22fl. Kind of makes you go "hmmmmmm."  

 

McStealth

GeorgePerry Veteran

GeorgePerry

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Quote: mooniac227

AVWEB produced a video of an interview with a rep from Rolls Royce at the AOPA show.  It's on YouTube:

Assuming these estimates are at least in the right zip-code; this would yield the following specific fuel consumption figures:

Mooney Turboprop - 255 ktas @ 25k - (.604 lbs/nm or 11.1 nm/gal)   220 ktas @12k - (1.09 lbs/nm or 7.3 nm/gal)

Mcstealth Grand Master

Mcstealth

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Okay, please put that into some perspective/comparision. What does the Meridian do? Acclaim? What is the smallest S/E turboprop out there right now? How does that compare? I know it is pure speculation on our part but that is where it gets fun.


McStealth

mooniac227 Explorer

mooniac227

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George -  Do your calculations take into account the reduced weight?


McStealth - I've had my Acclaim to FL240.  Was middle of the summer in TX, don't remember the temp, but I got 238 knots true.  I typically see about 2 knots speed per 1,000 feet, so at FL250 on that particular day should have got about 240 knots.


Would be interesting to know what some of the performance figures are for Bonanza turbo prop conversions. 

M20BE Enthusiast

M20BE

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The Rolls Royce R500 isn't designed for helicopters, it's designed with GA market in mind. It's revolutionairy, still don't get it why nobody is talking about it everyday :-(

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