Any words of wisdom for a new 1964 M20E owner?

[HRM]

6 hours ago, Barcho said:

Again... I understood him to say that he had limited hours in any aircraft.  If my encouragement of safety and proficiency of  a new Mooney owner offends you, then I apologize.  While you pick apart random posts with your time, I think I will go fly.  Enjoy your day!

I am going to comment that he should just take as many hours as at takes, as long as he obeys the rules regarding any time thresholds. Sort of like Einstein's famous saw: make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. I just don't think you can arbitrarily say how long it takes to learn to fly a Mooney, especially an E.

I cannot imagine "learning a Mooney" without a Mooney instructor, and a good Mooney instructor at that. See my many posts referencing giving young ATP wannabe CFI's the pucker-up (and I don't mean for a kiss) with a Mooney nod maneuver at the start of a BFR 

[N601RX]

21 hours ago, MTNM20E said:

The previous owner had the engine removed to check out an issue he was having.  It was determined that the lower half should be rebuilt.  The engine didn't have enough time on it to justify a complete overhaul.  In addition most of the accessories are original so we will be replacing them just to play it safe. Some additional upgrades are being discussed based upon budget such as a pro-power alternator.  Any other ideas while the engine is off the aircraft? A mechanic locally mentioned having the engine mounts sleeved while another indicated the visual inspection for cracking wasn't a big deal?

There was an AD on the original engine mounts.  If the engine mount has never had the sleeves or gussets installed it might be a good time to send it out for them.

[Hank]

Someone here with lots of free time and excess energy polished his firewall while the engine was out . . . If you're bored and just looking for something to do,math at should kill an evening or two!  

[MTNM20E]

As requested.  A few photos.  Pretty clean aircraft after getting all the dust off.  Shooting to get the engine back onto the aircraft in the next 6-8 weeks.

[Marauder]

Just now, Barcho said: I took him to say that he was a NEW pilot with LIMITED experience in any aircraft and ZERO complex time.  So yes, since it's a requirement to have 10 hours of dual for his complex endorsement, I don't think it's out of line to suggest he spend another 10 on specifics of his E.  

There's a 10 hour requirement for a complex endorsement?  Really?

Never heard of it.  Because my licence was issued prior to 97, I never got one. 

10 hours?  It just ain't that tough!  

Of course, not all dual is equal.  if you have a poor instructor, it might take one 10 hours to learn the differences.

http://www.jetairgroup.com/flight-school/training-courses/complex-endorsement/

I will tell you one thing. After I got my Mooney back after the avionics upgrade, it took me at least 10 hours to say I was back in the front seat flying.

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[Hank]

8 hours ago, Marauder said:

I will tell you one thing. After I got my Mooney back after the avionics upgrade, it took me at least 10 hours to say I was back in the front seat flying.

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How much of that was stick and rudder vs. the whiz bang panel you created? I'd wager it was mostly figuring out the Star Wars panel . . .

[Marauder]

8 hours ago, Marauder said: I will tell you one thing. After I got my Mooney back after the avionics upgrade, it took me at least 10 hours to say I was back in the front seat flying.

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How much of that was stick and rudder vs. the whiz bang panel you created? I'd wager it was mostly figuring out the Star Wars panel . . .

It was mostly Star Wars, but there was no way I was going to fly in the system when I didn't know what would happen when I pushed on those glowing buttons. Transitioning to new electronics can interfere with your ability to maintain control if you get distracted by a glowing or buzzing panel item.

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[Shadrach]

On February 22, 2016 at 11:04 AM, carl said:

 

 

 

There is not much difference structurally between a C & E , ( 20 HP, IO)

Noticing the parts manual . are the parts the same ?  I mean interchangeable . I'm looking for flap hinges, for my E , would hinges from the C be the same , Within the years listed on this part catalog?

There is no difference structurally. The only difference is the engine and cowl.

[Shadrach]

On February 23, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Mooneymite said:

20 Hours of dual?

Really?  Or did you mean 2.0 hours?

It's a Mooney, not a spaceplane.  Despite what we Mooneyspace minions say about having to be superior pilots, the Mooney is really a pretty predicable airplane.  My neighbor just transitioned to a TBM 850 (from a Corvalis) and it didn't take 20 hours!!!

I would not feel good about sending a first time mooney owner with little to no retract time on their way solo with just 2hrs of dual. 20 is excessive, but 2 is not enough for a greenie. 

[carl]

10 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

There is no difference structurally. The only difference is the engine and cowl.

Ross,

Here is a question that has always confused me .

 

The  I O 360 is supposed to be 200 hp in my E ,

 But on the FAA registration it is listed as 180 Hp.

the range for the engine varies with type I , as in A1A, but why doesn't the the FAA know that.  

 

carl

[Mooneymite]

17 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I would not feel good about sending a first time mooney owner with little to no retract time on their way solo with just 2hrs of dual. 20 is excessive, but 2 is not enough for a greenie. 

I wasn't advocating 2 hours to send a greenie on his way; I was reacting to 20 hours.  I think 2.0 hours is closer to what's needed than 20 for most pilots, but a good CFI will make that determination.

Generally, the ground portion of the complex checkout takes 2 hours, or more just explaining how the prop works and how to operate the engine without damaging it.  If the comprehension from the ground portion is good, learning to operate the constant speed prop goes pretty fast.

[Bob_Belville]

9 minutes ago, carl said:

Ross,

Here is a question that has always confused me .

 

The  I O 360 is supposed to be 200 hp in my E ,

 But on the FAA registration it is listed as 180 Hp.

the range for the engine varies with type I , as in A1A, but why doesn't the the FAA know that.  

 

carl

The hp, speed info that appears on FAA registration is strange. It is not just Mooneys.

My plane does not indicate hp or engine but my first E has IO360 and 180 hp as does a friend's 67F. All 3 indicate speed as 127 mph which does not match any V speed I know of. (It's half way between Va mgw 132, and Va 2200# 122!)  

Engine	Weight	Speed	Mode S Code
1966 MOONEY M20E Fixed wing single engine (4 seats / 1 engine)	BELVILLE ROBERT C MORGANTON , NC, US (Individual)	Standard/Normal	929
(Reciprocating)	Less than 12,500lbs	127mph	053214731 / AD19D9

 

Engine	Weight	Speed	Mode S Code
1966 MOONEY M20E Fixed wing single engine (4 seats / 1 engine)	ASTRONAUTICAL DEVELOPMENT LLC MOREHEAD , KY, US (Corporation)	Standard/Normal	1198
LYCOMING I0360 SER (Reciprocating) Horsepower: 180	Less than 12,500lbs	127mph	053150245 / ACD0A5

 

Engine	Weight	Speed	Mode S Code
1967 MOONEY M20F Fixed wing single engine (4 seats / 1 engine)	SHELTON VADER JR DREXEL , NC, US (Individual)	Standard/Normal	670456
LYCOMING I0360 SER (Reciprocating) Horsepower: 180

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, carl said:

Ross,

Here is a question that has always confused me .

 

The  I O 360 is supposed to be 200 hp in my E ,

 But on the FAA registration it is listed as 180 Hp.

the range for the engine varies with type I , as in A1A, but why doesn't the the FAA know that.  

 

carl

As Bob said, the FAAs registration info is weird. Mine also has 180hp and 127mph on the reg. The TCDS clearly states the real configuration. 

I used to question this sort of thing. I understand now that rules, standards and paperwork accuracy are for those being regulated, not so much the regulators.

[markazzarito]

The M20E is a great choice you wont find a more economical bird on the field. Check out Airtex for interiors they have great kits for around $3000. Putting the upholstery in is no small task in a mooney. I did my interior under an A&P's supervision in about a week. If you are replacing cylinders i highly reccomend going with brand new lycoming steel. The chrome and the nickle cylinders are very easy to glaze on break in and once you do that you have to start all over. While your at it install an airwolf oil filter kit. An oil screen is no way to treat new cylinders. As far as avionics go a handheld panel mount aera 560 fits nicely you can find them used for around $1000. There is a plug and play replacement made by Michel for the old tube navcom that runs about $1800. I would definitely suggest upgrading your starter to a skytec and losing about 15lbs. Upgrade your landing light to led and your battery to gel. This airplane does not have an alternator and instead runs on a generator so a great battery is key. One more expensive but great upgrade is engine monitoring with fuel flow. JPI makes a great unit the EDM 700. The last tip i have is have your rigging inspected by an authorized mooney center with the original rigging boards. These birds are fast because of their aerodynamics. Flight controls slightly tweeked after years of use can cause you to lose significant airspeed. I had my plane re-rigged and went from averaging around 150 mph true airspeed to 175 mph  it made such a difference i had to learn how to slow the plane down in the pattern all over again. 

Edited March 5, 2016 by markazzarito

[MyNameIsNobody]

On February 24, 2016 at 4:20 PM, drapo said:

Congrats to a new Super 21 owner!  I always refer to it as the Porsche Carrera of general aviation. Handling, speed and fast even standing still, my kind of airplane.

If you want to tour America with the wife, two kids and a dog, there's always a good ole Ford Station wagon or a Minivan...

My insurance company also asked for ten hours dual and five hours with six take-off/landing prior to carrying passengers. 

Blue skies in your "Brand new to you" 64 M20E 

Got to go with a Targa 4S for my comparison. It has a small rear jumpseat access able through a separate opening. It has an S in the name implying and having more power. The view is spectacular with the opening top.  The Mooney view is likewise Super. It is powerful, Fast, Beautiful AND Expensive. Engine is confined, but maintenance can be performed by owner. Both are quality speed machines that are built to be flogged for maximum SPH. "Smiles-Per-Hour...

[MTNM20E]

Quick update.  Sending engine parts out and getting other parts in.  The engine is in process and the airplane is one day closer to get back in the air!  I only have one set of keys.  What is the best way to gets copies? Is the local hardware store the only option?

[carusoam]

MTN,

Try this thread...

Best regards,

-a-

[HRM]

40 minutes ago, MTNM20E said:

Quick update.  Sending engine parts out and getting other parts in.  The engine is in process and the airplane is one day closer to get back in the air!  I only have one set of keys.  What is the best way to gets copies? Is the local hardware store the only option?

You may want to rethink the locking of the doors. 

If you have something expensive in the panel and the thief uses a Bowie knife to open the fuse like a can of beans, then you have the loss of the expensive goodiy AND the potentially greater expense of bent aluminum repair.

Those locks are to keep honest people honest. If a thief wants in, they will get in.

My E is quite complex to get started and non-trivial to get into the air. As a consequence, a barefoot bandit is going to choose the Cessgnat parked next to it to make his getaway.

My E lives in a secure hangar. When she travels, I never leave her in "questionable places". I also have a  Bruce's Custom Cover to put on her when I can't get a manager for the night--fairly secure in itself.

[Hank]

My door locks look like they came from Staples cheapest imported filing cabinet. At least the keys are easy to copy. The bad news is that I need a set of three:  different keys for ignition, door and baggage. I keep them separate with the colored things that slip on, although I have one set that has color added to both sides (and they're only a little chipped). Red for fire (ignition), green for Go (door), blue for bags.

[steingar]

When I had to make keys for my Cherokee I went to a locksmith.  Didn't bat an eye that he was making airplane keys either.  

[MTNM20E]

Thanks for the help on the keys guys! First stop Lowes;) Probably the least expensive thing I will ever purchase for the aircraft if it works.  Next question is paint chips.  Being a new owner I want to dress the old girl up a bit and give her some renewed shine.  The base color is a nice white that is actually in pretty good shape.  There are a few small chips and scratches here and there that I would like to clear up as I patiently wait for more engine parts to come in.  Is it acceptable to just get one of the paint touch up pens from the local auto store or is there a more appropriate method?  THX

[Hank]

I took inspection panels to the same store I bought the SEM paint for the interior. Think they mixed a quart of it. They sold me some small bottles with ball bearings inside for storage. Worked well, until I misplaced them . . . The hard part is touching up a small spot and getting the paint layer thin. I'm talking spots the size if an English pea or smaller, not really suitable for an airbrush.

[carusoam]

My C had a nice matching spray paint that my mechanic showed me.  Bought it at the local automotive store.  It was a beigey whitishness.  For the next step I took the access panel off the side of the tail cone and took it to the paint shop that had a color matching computer.  They can mix paint to match pretty well that way and put it in a spray can.

your log books a great resource for what paint type is on there already.  They usually have the paint color's name and number.  That would really help.  (Acrylic vs urethane? One doesn't work well with the other)

putting down a base coat of anti-oxidant yellow layer is something to read up on.  Paint chemistry for this has changed for safety/Health reasons over the last decade....  A can of this can be purchased through aircraftspruce...

start by looking at the first page or two of your airframe's first log book.  See what you find.

This comes from my M20C experience.

Best regards,

-a-

[HRM]

9 minutes ago, MTNM20E said:

Thanks for the help on the keys guys! First stop Lowes;) Probably the least expensive thing I will ever purchase for the aircraft if it works.  Next question is paint chips.  Being a new owner I want to dress the old girl up a bit and give her some renewed shine.  

Oh, you are wanting a gorgeous E, something like this:

During the training I had for my insurance sentence, we stopped at 11R (Brenham) for lunch en route to San Antone. BTW, they have the most incredible diner there. Anyway, after my second ever landing in The Mistress, I taxied in and as I did so, three guys were getting out of a piper that had landed ahead of us. They all turned and stared as I taxied in. Unnerved, I asked my CFI what they were staring at. Was the landing that bad? He said, "No, they are staring at the plane, not you." 

[MTNM20E]

HRM,  That is a beautiful aircraft you have there!