How do you spell D A M A G E.

[MyNameIsNobody]

 

It blows my mind , that people like these one piece bellys , they are a butcher fix , that adds weight to the plane , and is in no way a speed mod , and with the advent of screw guns , may save you 2 minutes , bottom line , when the one piece belly is off , the damaged stringers and scraped up metal are still there under it .....No thanks.......Even if geared up , I prefer the fix to be the original panels......   As far as a newer prop , agreed , and most Lycomings that are geared up don't get an overhaul , they get the accessory case removed and the gear dye checked , new bolt , lock plate and gaskets........ That's what the factory requires.....

I completely disagree.  No damaged stringers on my smooth fiberglass belly, that when easily removed, shows the bottom.  My wife and I lose weight when we need useful load.  All three of us have prettier bellies...

Overhauled engine and all accessories to include mags, oil cooler, Teflon hoses, refurbished (essentially new) exhaust, overhauled oil cooler and new overlapping nose gear doors...

WAY better than pre-GU including the belly.  Butcher...Funny.  Why did later models put the one piece belly on?  I wonder....HMMMMmmmmmmm?

[michæl]

What surprised me was the number of planes I saw with extensive paint work done, and in some cases not noted at all in the logs.  What causes all this partial repainting and if it was extensive enough to replace the wing walk, etc., why not just note it in the logs?  What causes one to have thick globbing clear coat running all down the ailerons? Why is overspray all over the place?  In some cases it's in the logs but never mentioned during any discussion with the seller.  I've learned that when "year painted" is omitted from the listing that potentially is avoiding an issue.   One wing repainted and not the other - and not in the logs.  What's the deal there?  A plane repainted three times in only a couple hundred hours yet not mentioned throughout several discussions with a seller?  Sure, no big deal as long as it's discovered, right?  I've got about $5,000 into travel looking at planes so far this fall.  I'm chalking that up to getting a great education.  By the way, with the 2015 - the first time I called there was full disclosure as to the nature of the work done on that plane. That's the way it should be.  There's no excuse to cause someone to travel to see a plane with full intent to purchase it knowing full well that there are issues that should be disclosed.  Like I said, I've learned a lot.  Now that I've learned that there's no substitute for getting a copy of the logs prior to making travel plans, there's another thing: get a title search done from aerospace for $95.  That shows N number changes and in one case I learned things based on the previous N number that I wouldn't have found out.  In another case I found that the N number had been changed three times and the paint work was runny and sloppy.

[N601RX]

Unless accompanied by sheet metal work I would not consider paint touch up damage history. It's normal wear and tear. On a fast plane the leading edge paint takes a beating especially if flown in rain. Paint touch up or wing top side repaint is a common method of extending the life a paint job. Think of it as preservation. 

[M20F]

 

I've got about $5,000 into travel looking at planes so far this fall.  I'm chalking that up to getting a great education. 

If you are looking to spend close to 3/4 of a million dollars on a plane (which a 2015 is), then the cost of hiring an expert is going to be a lot cheaper and work a lot better for you.  Recommend calling All American Aircraft and have them find what you want.  Will be cheaper, safer, and better.  

You don't know what you don't know and trying to learn that on a $600K purchase, well YMMV. 

[Mooneymite]

 

... compliance with Lycoming SB 475C mandatory.  

I just looked up that SB and see that it has been revised.  It lists a different number for the Food Grade Anti Seize.  It previously specified a different number that was tough to find, but the new number seems to have lots of sources.

When I was trying to locate the previous specified Anti-Seize, it was amazing how many reputable shops told me, "Oh, it doesn't matter, we just use such and such."  When I questioned if that different anti-seize might change the specified torque value, there was always a pregnant pause in the conversation.  I still don't know the answer, but it seems like it might.

[Sabremech]

I painted my new modified cowling recently and didn't make a logbook entry for it because it's not maintenance related, purely cosmetic. That could explain why you don't see touch up or partial paint work in the logbooks unless it involves painting of flight controls,  etc. 

[carusoam]

Similar (but different) to buying a house isn't it?  You can do it all on your own to save money when you have the experience already.  Doing it on your own, adds to the risk.  Trading risk to save money.

Or you can pay for a real estate agent, a prepurchase engineering inspection, radon test, title search. Etc..

FSBO for sale by owner usually means expect some surprises, not good ones.

Finding a real estate agent that matches your expectations is key.  You write down all the things that you want the house to have, they start culling the ones with bad paint, poor siding, too empty kitchen instrument panels...

Buying a house isn't easy.  It uses tons of time too.  Reselling anything isn't low cost either...  The need to get it done correctly the first time is gigantic.

Michæl, do you have these experiences to compare to? Do you already own a plane? Are you already IR?

When it comes to airplanes, the amount of experience required to improve safety to yourself and your finances is endless.

Even in the Mooney market, it is generally unusual to select a particular year and say 'that is the one I need to have'

Ovations were first built in 1994. They had King panels all digitally driven with mechanical analog displays.  The MSE package includes everything with the finest details except two things.  Air conditioning and a FIKI system.  These options carry additional weight and maintenance and may not be appreciated by all customers.  They can be added today by a simple wave of the pen.

Updates that have occurred since these early birds include the G1000 panel, GTN series Nav/coms, and 310hp and TopProp combination...

Really uneasy changes that occurred in 2008 was the fall of the world economy.  The end of the orders coming into the plant.  The massive downsizing of the workforce.  Our one inside contact remained the same.  A guy named Stacey.

Early on in life it is dissapointing to see how much experience it takes and how long it takes to acquire that experience.

The option is always available to skip acquiring many of these experiences and rent the expertise from somebody that has it.

The really unusual thing you may find is expensive to one person is a drop in the bucket for the next.  Find the thread around here that is titled 'introduce yourself'.  It is one of my favorites.

You are not going from no plane to the latest Ovation, are you? That would not be a normal progression because the amount of training and cash to do it properly is big.  Doing it on a CB's budget would be near impossible. Just the insurance costs would be quite large.

Are you a MAPA member already?  Have you signed up for MAPA training? These are the typical next steps for Mooney owners that fly in IMC.

Have you gotten a quote for the insurance based on your experience yet?

It is great being able to get to know different Mooney pilots around the globe,

Best regards,

-a-

 

[michæl]

Thanks for the feedback - this is my third airplane in nearly 20 years, 2nd Mooney. Also, everything I've written about here was experienced with a broker or discovered with the involvement of a mechanic on a pre-buy. Hence the $5,000 spent so far looking at just a few airplanes. I'm with you - have been going the professional route from the beginning. Last plane I bought was one year old and bought direct from the owner. Clean, totally as represented, simple. This time around, not so much.

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[michæl]

And yes, IR, t/w, glider,.

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[carusoam]

All that preparation and experience only minimizes the pain.  Even buying new, direct from the factory comes with a handful of break-in challenges and infant mortality things.

Owning the house and plane are great.  Buying them is a full time job.  And, not always an enjoyable experience.

Is there anything that you could do differently now that would make a difference?

If you go outside the O limitation, did you see the Acclaim posted for sale on MS?  Owned by a guy in Mass.  Flown to support his machining business on the East Coast.  The Acclaim is very similar to the O in operation and it has the pair of the TNs.

It always helps to get to know the Owner and broker some....

 

Eric has posted some of the nicest 'for sale' photos for the plane.  I believe he posted Flight aware details of flights he has made.  He mentioned why he was changing out planes as well.

I enjoyed buying and selling machines, does it show?

Best regards,

-a-

[michæl]

I almost closed on an acclaim s recently but a last minute hiccup on the seller's end caused that deal to go off track. I've since gone back to just looking for the O. I was trying to get this done prior to year end and now with travel plans coming up and it being 2016 anyhow for the tax year I'm just going to see what comes up.

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[michæl]

After that happened I found the S you mentioned and I talked to Eric - great guy and it looks like a great airplane. Not certain that I want an Acclaim though. I had my sights set on the O and for what I do I feel like it's a better fit. Shorter trips, etc.

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[carusoam]

The TN part makes it different than the TC discussion.  Short vs long trip efficiencies are more significant with TC.

Turbo normalize vs. turbo charge...

TC'd engines have different compression ratios and really need the TC to be operational for proper operation.

TN'd engines maintain sea level conditions on ordinary compression ratios for sea level performance up to the flight levels.

Since the O and the A are putting out near full power (pilot preference) as long as they are climbing, the efficiencies aren't much different.  Power to the TNs is the difference. Kind of like powering an AC compressor and a FIKI pump with the extra alternator.

Climbing at 2kfpm is a function of the 310HP...

Best regards,

-a-