Mooniacs near Phoenix

[glasgowcmcm]

Good Morning All,

I'm looking for someone who would be willing to look at a 1968 M20F I found in the Phoenix area. I've emailed the seller to see which airport it’s at. I think he has had some bad experiences in the past based on the first reply I received. I'm still in Afghanistan, only a few more weeks, and can't give him my phone number here since I don't have one and my wife would have no idea what to ask. Email is my way of communicating until the 11.5 hour time difference lines up and I can call him so that shouldn’t make me seem less serious as a buyer.

My guess is the Mooney is sitting at Phoenix Regional due do his address being in Maricopa. I would like to see if someone or a couple people would be able to go by and take a look once I get the location and give me an assessment of the aircraft in general. I'm willing to repay expenses to have someone familiar with Mooneys take a look and give me a no holds barred assessment of whether I should continue speaking with this gentleman or pass and continue my search. I've thought about calling a broker but based on the posts I've read, most of the mooneyspacers seem more than happy and willing to help out with these types of requests.

Some basics on the airframe are: TT4160, 195 SMOH, 86 on new Hartzel 3 blade, tanks resealed in 2007, paint in 2004, Ovation style glove leather seats.

Have a great day!

Chris

[KLRDMD]

Quote: glasgowcmcm

I'm looking for someone who would be willing to look at a 1968 M20F I found in the Phoenix area.

[glasgowcmcm]

I plan on calling him once I get back to work in the morning. It should be around 7pm Phoenix time so as soon as I get the information and he is willing to allow someone to come by I'll PM you or post it here. I appreciate the offer.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: glasgowcmcm

I plan on calling him once I get back to work in the morning. It should be around 7pm Phoenix time so as soon as I get the information and he is willing to allow someone to come by I'll PM you or post it here. I appreciate the offer.

[rbridges]

Quote: KLRDMD

I'm happy to go take a look, what are the specifics ?

[Mcstealth]

Quote: rbridges

I'm happy to go take a look, what are the specifics ?

[glasgowcmcm]

Still no word from the owner. I'm taking this as a sign and moving on to a Mooney that is in the Orlando area. I'll keep you up to date and probably ask a few of you to review the information I have and get unbiased assesments like Ken gave me. This Orlando gentleman emails me back promptly and I'm waiting on copies of the logbooks.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: glasgowcmcm

Still no word from the owner. I'm taking this as a sign and moving on to a Mooney that is in the Orlando area. I'll keep you up to date and probably ask a few of you to review the information I have and get unbiased assesments like Ken gave me. This Orlando gentleman emails me back promptly and I'm waiting on copies of the logbooks.

[glasgowcmcm]

Here are the specifics for this 1967 M20F, he's asking $57500 and Vref shows it at $47500. Not sure how you adjust value for good maintenance history and the other mods to the airframe. I'll appreciate any input people would like to share.

Engine/Propeller/Rotor Information

Airframe: Total Time: 5,500 Hours.

Engine(s):   610 SMOH OH by Zephyr Prop(s):   30 SPOH, New-Hub/Cold-Rolled Blades

Maintenance Condition

IFR Very Clean Fresh Annual Always Hangared No Damage History Complete Logs since Mfg P & I: 7/10 & All Records Compression Mid-Upper 70's at 3/09 Annual Well Maintained by Current A&P Owner Last 11 Years

Avionics:

2 Narco COM 120's Narco Nav 121 (Overhauled 2008) Narco Nav 122 w/ GS (Overhauled 2008) Narco AT-150 Transponder Narco CP136 Audio Panel Narco ADF 141 King KN-62A DME Garmin 150 GPS

Equipment:

201 Windshield 201 Polished Prop Spinner Locking Fuel Caps Adj Headrests, Front also Tilt Adjustable Wing Visual Fuel Gauges Aero Trim Electric Stabilizer Trim Aileron/Flap Gap Seals Overlapping Nose Gear Doors Front Seat Shoulder Harnesses Front Pass. Side Eyeball Fresh Air Vent Articulating Front Visors Brake Rotation Stainless Steel Brake Discs Individual Adj Rear Seat Backs Horizon P-1000 Electronic Digital Tach El US-8A Engine Analyzer Brittain Wing Leveler w/ Nav Tracker Precision PAI-70 Vertical Card Compass SOFTCOMM ATC-4P 4 Pl Intercom Skytec Super Flyweight Starter/Slick Wags Concorde Sealed Battery Retractable Step (Vacuum) New Vernier Mixture Control Both Rear Seat Backs & Full Width Bench Seat Removable Upper & Lower Cowl Closure (201 Look-Alike Mod Mfg by ARI) 1 Piece 201 Rear Picture Windows Dorsal Fin & Stabilizer Root Fairing Mods Inboard Flap Hinge Covers, Flap Fillet Fairings Enlarged Lower Cowling Air Outlet (Mooney SB 182) New Oil Cooler Relocated to Behind #4 Cyl ADC Firewall Mounted Spin-On Oil Filter M20 Turbos Air-Oil Separator Whelen 3 Light Strobes w/ Central Pwr Supply K & N Challenger Reusable Air Inlet Filter Dual Halogen Landing Lights with Plexiglass Govers

Interior:

Extensive 14 Month Restoration 1999-2000 w/ New Grey Cloth Interior Beautiful Interior Good Condition

Exterior:

1985 White Paint w/ 2 Blue Stripes still Looks Great Extensive 14 Month Restoration 1999-2000 w/ New Glass Tanks Resealed by Willmar Air Svc, MN 8/05 Good Condition

Comments:

Manual gear & flaps, 64 gals fuel capacity, 200 hp 10-360A1A, 9.5 gph, 147K cruise, 1014 lb useful load, Includes Mooney Svc & Maint, Parts Manual, Svc Bulletin & AD binders, extra POH, Mooney landing gear preload check tools, control travel jigs, felt lined canvas full cabin cover, all receipts for parts purchased by current owner since 1995. 14 month extensive restoration 1999-2000 rebuilding landing gear, all new shock discs, lots of new rod end bearings, bushings, bolts, trim tube u-joints, access panel stainless steel hardware and cowl CAMLOCs. Interior was completely stripped to bare aluminum, old fiberglass insulation & adhesive removed, SB 208A compl/w again, no evidence of any water leaks, only some minor exterior surface rust spots found on cabin roll cage tubing. Tubing and interior aluminum treated, primed and painted. All fuselage interior seams and joints covered with alum foil tape, all surfaces covered with alum foil covered 1/8th inch thick closed cell `Super Soundproofing" sound dampener. 1 inch thick closed cell soundproofing to sides, 1/2 inch thick to overhead, all new interior front side panels & baggage door cover. Rear side and ovhd plastic panels repaired. Poster board baggage compt walls replaced with corrugated Airtex Polyboard. All seat backs repaired and reinforced. All new light & med grey Airtex cloth covers entire interior (panels, window frames, sides, seats & ovhd), new carpet, new seat belts/seat foam, Conforfoam front seat cushions. Replaced all 4 original poor quality plastic round overhead air vents w/metal eyeball air vents. #2 cyl exh valve stuck open @ 290 SMOH, cyl repaired by JB Aircraft Eng Svc, Sebring FL, to include new exh valve, piston pin and ring set. 2003: muffler & exhaust repaired by DAWLEY to essentially new condition. 2005: New Sigma-Tek Attitude Gyro; overhauled DG and turn coordinator. 9 hole LH instrument panel retrofit mod installed.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: glasgowcmcm

Here are the specifics for this 1967 M20F, he's asking $57500 and Vref shows it at $47500. Not sure how you adjust value for good maintenance history and the other mods to the airframe. I'll appreciate any input people would like to share.

Engine/Propeller/Rotor Information

Airframe: Total Time: 5,500 Hours.

 

Engine(s):

 

610 SMOH OH by Zephyr

Prop(s):

 

30 SPOH, New-Hub/Cold-Rolled Blades

[flight2000]

Quote: KLRDMD

30 SPOH concerns me too as this was almost certainly done to satisfy an AD. That AD is a couple of years old now so that means he's flown the airplane only 30 hours in the last couple of years.

[richardheitzman]

Avionics is outdated with no IFR GPS (Garmin 430 with WAAS is the norm now) so you need to subtract for that. No auto pilot is also a subtract. The wing leveler is not considered an auto pilot. High(er) time aircraft does mean less value. Recent Mooney Service Center annual adds a couple grand to the value of the aircraft, but if the aircraft has not seen a service center in the last 11 years make sure you get a damm good prebuy.

47K for a M20F via Vref is resonable. 57K is high. BUT as with all things, I am sure his price is negotionable.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: flight2000

Maybe, maybe not.  Unless I saw the logs and found out when he did the POH, we don't know how much it's flown since the change.  He could have been doing the EDDY inspections like I have been since the AD came out .

[flight2000]

Yep, lots of good points otherwise. 

I've had issues with MSC's, so they are certainly not the end all, be all of Mooney Maintenance.  There are Great, Good, and Marginal, like anything else out there.

Brian

[danb35]

Quote: richardheitzman

The wing leveler is not considered an auto pilot.

[carusoam]

Narcos are not the same quality as Garmin, nor are they Honeywell/Bendix-King.

The panel list indicates separate coms and navs.  Interesting choice, but not common.

 

-a-

[rbridges]

I admit that I'm new to mooneys, but I did shop for a long time.  Does anyone see anything that makes this plane stand out for the price.  IMO, it seems a little high compared to others I've seen along the way.

[DaV8or]

To the OP-

Here's a strategy that I used when shopping for a Mooney that you could apply to this Mooney or any other. First, put together a realistic list of must haves and features that you would like your Mooney to have in the end. Then, place priorities on these things. After that work out a realistic budget for a completed plane, not necesaarily the cost of the plane you might buy. Do the research here, on the AOPA forums, asking around and in the magazines on how much upgrades cost. Trade a Plane really helps. Once you have in mind things that are important to you, it's pretty easy to make a spreadsheet to qualify or disqualify a candidate plane. Look a planes features in both the plus and minus column and then figure how much it's going to cost you to get it to the completed plane inside your budget. Also remember that there will no doubt be surprises even if you do get a great prebuy, so budget for that too. Even if a plane seems high in an ad, call anyways because most sellers these days are willing to knock a bunch off. This guy probably will too.

Good luck!

Oh, and I think this plane is a bit over priced because the avionics are pretty poor. It does have other good features though, so see if the owner will work with you, but I would not pay $57k for it even if radios are not a priority for you.

[glasgowcmcm]

Thanks for all the feedback. The 2 closest MSCs are Daytona Beach and Florida Flight Maintenance in Venice. The owner said he's never had experience with either one. I don't think it's worth $57500 either. I'm assuming he's put in wiggle room. It's been listed for a few months. I tried tried to take a look at it when I was on mid-tour back in July but our schedules couldn't line up. I'm looking for a good Mooney that I can go cross country and have IFR capability. I understand that you should find an aircraft with the avionics you want already installed to save the expense but most of them seem to be out of my budget and I have no experience with a 430. I'm used to flying with a single VOR, single ADF, and a non IFR approved GPS so having dual COMM/NAV will be a step up. Out of the list of 8 possible Mooneys I have built so far, this seems to be the best qualified at this time.

If you can think of other items I need to be concerned with once I get the logs, let me know and I'll dig into it. I've got a long plane ride ahead and with the Army's hurry up and wait policy, I should have plenty of time to read while I wait for the flight to cross the pond for hopefully the last time.

[rbridges]

I'd really look for one with a 430 or something similar.  Even if you don't care for it, it will help with resale when the time comes.  I also wanted an autopilot when I bought mine.  My line of thought was that it would be cheaper to buy it already installed than paying for it myself.

You mentioned looking at an Orlando plane.  A lot of people warned me about Florida planes and corrosion.  take that with a grain of salt b/c I have no first hand experience with it.

[flight2000]

Once you fly with a 430W or something similiar (530W, 300XL, KLN94B), you'll be screaming at the Army to retrofit all of the helo's.  Just gives that much more cababilty.  The tolerance along airways is tighter and there is the option of going direct.  Maybe not so much in Florida and the NE, but anything in the middle of the country normally gets approved.  Heck, even finding a VOR is easier. I wish these had been available back when I got my IR (okay, LORAN was available, but not in the aircraft I flew...)

I'd sell you my E, but the guys on the board would severly hurt me for changing my mind... again.  I'm debating what I want to do after this tour and going back to Europe looks like a real possibility now.  

Brian

[rbridges]

Brian, I'm amazed at how much work you did to your plane.  I checked out your website, and your E model looks great, especially compared to its original condition.

[flight2000]

Thanks!!  It's been a fun project and the "only" thing left is an STEC 30 w/alt hold, GPSS, and an engine analyzer (all scheduled for early 2011).  I'll say the cosmetics were rather ugly when I bought it, but the airframe is clean and that's the important piece.

I went the opposite route and found a cheap, clean airframe before doing all of the upgrades to my standards.  Not cheaper (not over the top $$ wise either), but it's way better than anything I've seen on the market lately for under $100K (IMHO ).

Brian

[DaV8or]

If you don't mind staying with just regular nav/coms, find a plane with digital Kings in it. They are the best nav/coms IMO and aren't too hard to find. Narcos have a pretty bad rep for reliabiltity and that has been my experience with rental planes with Narcos too. At least have your #1 be a King with glide slope.

[flight2000]

I thought the newer Narco MK12D was a vast improvement and they figured out the reliability issues.  The owner of the FBO I hanger at has Narco's in his plane (65 M20E) and swears by them.  Interesting debate on Narco v.s. King Digital radios.  If I had the extra bones, I'd stick a Garmin SL30 in there though.  Maybe when the KX155 craps out someday.

Brian