Advice needed on Mooney Purchase

[jax88]

I suppose having $2,000,000 gives me twice the chance of getting robbed as having $1,000,000 does?

[scottfromiowa]

A single safer than a twin while over water?...One of the primary reasons to have a twin is the ability to fly "one engine" should an event cause an engine to fail.  I would feel a lot better...I go around lake Michigan vs. going accross as I can't get enough altitude to glide to land should I lose my engine in my Mooney...my risk aversion says don't take the chance.  In a twin...NO problem, lose an engine keep on keep'n on.  Right Jose?

[scottfromiowa]

Only if you tell me where you are Jax88 ;<)

[231Pilot]

The J seems to realistically fit your mission best, and is a wonderful aircraft with good speed, range, and useful load.  Its rate of climb begins to suffer above 8-10 thousand feet.

If you want a go high in a hurry airplane, each of the turbos has its own particular cost: Rockets have high fuel burn and low useful load, 231 has low useful load and requires a watchful eye when managing the boost and temperature (no factory wastegate and intercooler), 252 has a low useful load but is an otherwise ideal turbo.  If you want a turbo Mooney, the most practical option from a fuel burn/speed/useful load is probably the Encore (basically a 252 with more engine/weight/useful load).

All in all, you can get a lot of 201 for your budget....either bought with everything you want already there for a higher price or ready to upgrade for a lower price....and much less in maintenence, fuel, and insurance.

[howardld]

I purchased a 262 conversion two years ago. It has basically been a bullet proof airplane. The automatic wastegate makes engine management a breeze. Upon takeoff I open the cowl flaps push the throttle full forward and leave it there until I level off. When I level off I close the cowl flaps, lean the engine and that is it until I am in the pattern for landing. I live in Texas and you might wonder why I would want a turbo. I had several hundred hours in a Cherokee 180. I would slog along in the heat and turbulance. In the summer my climb rate would be down to 400 fpm at 6,000. My father in law had a turbo aztec. That baby would climb 1,100 fpm up to the cool air. I can now do the same on 12.5 gal per hour vs. his 32 gal per hour. Oh and my cruise is the same.

[Skywarrior]

Quote: Skywarrior

But, if you're determined to get a turbo model, get a 252 or a TLS Bravo. The automatic wastegate in either of those planes is a great feature that a "K" does not have.

--------

Many do have the Merlyn...

OK, then.  

I had been told that by a former MAC test pilot.

Chuck M.

[Piloto]

Quote: scottfromiowa

A single safer than a twin while over water?...One of the primary reasons to have a twin is the ability to fly "one engine" should an event cause an engine to fail.  I would feel a lot better...I go around lake Michigan vs. going accross as I can't get enough altitude to glide to land should I lose my engine in my Mooney...my risk aversion says don't take the chance.  In a twin...NO problem, lose an engine keep on keep'n on.  Right Jose?

[RJBrown]

Quote: 201Pilot

If you want a go high in a hurry airplane, each of the turbos has its own particular cost: Rockets have high fuel burn and low useful load

[rob]

Quote: Piloto

Keep in mind that the chances of blowing up a cylinder on a piston twin are three times that of an M20J. So while that piston twin is trying to find a place to land or ditch your M20J will keep on going. Not all the piston twins (specially non-turbo) can maintain altitude with a full load. Particularly on take-off and climb when it is heavily loaded. I have seen several Cessna 400 series ditch in the Bahamas because of one engine failure. What most people do not realize is that an engine failure on a twin is at least twice likely than on a single. Where twins make a difference is in the turboprop or jet category where there is plenty of excess power to sustain flight safely. From the beginins in aviation the extra engine(s) were added not for redundancy but to allow carrying a heavier load instead of putting bigger engines. A B52 with eight engines is a good example.

José       

[FlyingAggie]

When I lived in VA my target plane was a 201, but moving to CO during the plane hunt, put the target on a 231/252.  A few weeks ago I departed Rocky Mountain Metro at gross weight when the temperature was 98 degF and the density altitude was over 9,000 ft. and I was glad of my choice.

The downside is the maintenance expense, turbo's produce a lot of heat and the more heat the shorter the lives of the cylinders (TCM TSIO-360 1800 TBO vs 2000 TBO for Lyc IO360).  The engine in a 231/252 cost almost twice the cost of a Lycoming 4 banger ($42K vs $26K.)

I thought the 262 conversion offered the best price performance point:  252 operating ease at 231 cost.  

In your case though, I would think a 201 would better fit your mission.  The 201 is actually faster on less fuel below 10K' than the turbo flavored Mooneys and early model 201's will have more useful load than most K's.

The optimum plane in my humble opinion is an M20K Encore, with 220 HP and an gross load increase, but you probably can't find an Encore for $150K.

[Jeff_S]

Quote: Piloto

Overall the M20J model is the most cost effective and reliable. Mine (82 M20J) can do 155kts at 8gph/2400rpm/LOP at 10,000 feet. [Remainder of post deleted for brevity.]

José     

[74657]

Thank you all for the insight.  After discussions with one of the members on the site I have determined that a turbo is not the way to go.

I saw this plane a while back but passed it over because of hours on the engine. 

http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=130963&listingType=true&IsInternal=True&dealerid=

The Tiger I currently own is a 139-140kt cruiser, has a killer panel and has been a very inexpensive plane to maintain.  I want to go FAST but after I sell my Tiger and spend upwards of 100K I'm not convinced that it is a smart decision for only 15 knots...

That is why I originally looked at Rockets and 252's but for the right price a Missile might fit the bill.

N888DF is asking 130K and the broker will work on a trade for my Tiger as he used to be a dealer for Grumman's back in the late 70's.

 

 

 

[Piloto]

Quote: rob

Interesting logic. One might remind you that the likelyhood of losing ALL your engines in a single is twice that of a twin. A twin is half as likely to turn into a glider. Similarly, one might argue that flying on 5/6ths of your cylinders is preferable to 3/4, don't you think?

[FlyDave]

Quote: JimR

I'm apparently one of the rare ones that is enamoured more by the Mooney's efficiency than by it's maximum speed. 

Jim 

[fantom]

Quote: rob

[Ron McBride]

I have about 500 hrs in 310's, about 500 hours in high performance singles and a Couple Hundred in basic singles.

I have had an engine failure in the 310 on takeoff. It was not fun, but we are fine, the plane flew a week later. In a twin, it takes and demands, practice, practice and practice.

I have had a partial power failure in my Mooney. It is not fun, but was fixed an hour later, then maintenace to repair this flaw in the design.

I have had maintenance problems over the years, even though I try to keep it maintaned to 110%. We/I am flying a 40 year old plane.

All planes are a trade off of design. We trade speed, economy, space, safety, costs of ownershio in every plane that we choose. My F model is the best choice for me 95% of my flying.  Yes a twin would be nice, but not now.

I recently flew from Central CA to eastern OK. 9 1/2 hours going east, 10 1/2 hours going west. 20 hours and about 180 galllons of fuel. A 310 would have been about 15 hours and 375 gallons of gas. I was alone in the plane, do the math. A different load may come with a different answeer.

Ron

Ron

[74657]

Who's got 2 thumbs and just put a deposit down on N888DF?

 

This guy!

[Mcstealth]

Congratulations

 

[JC252MB]

I own a 252.  I fly it often and I'm very pleased with the performance and the overall efficiency of the airplane.  It is the first Mooney I've owned in fact it is the first and only Mooney I've ever flown.  If you want to get a first hand look at a really nice one that lives in MI, drop me a PM.

[DaV8or]

Quote: 74657

Who's got 2 thumbs and just put a deposit down on N888DF?

 

This guy!

[HopePilot]

Quote: FlyDave

I like the speed of my Mooney and run 2500/WOT burning 10.8 gph/157KTAS at altitude.

But I was talking to my mechanic yesterday and he said that my Mooney is such a fast airplane that I now need to subtract the time out of my log books when I fly .

Dave

PS - If Brandon gets that missile he won't have any log book time left in a year and will probably have to budget a few AMU's a year speeding tickets!!

[FlyingAggie]

To the OP,

This one has lots of bells and whistles:

http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?utm_source=Alerts&id=129245

[FlyDave]

Quote: HopePilot

What altitude?  Your plane is very similar to mine so I'm trying to get references on fuel burn.  What do you usually see on CHT and EGT at that speed?  I think I'm flying too rich these days.

[FlyDave]

Quote: 74657

Who's got 2 thumbs and just put a deposit down on N888DF?

This guy!

[HopePilot]

Nice choice!