bonal Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 One thing for sure there are no shortage of opinions on MS and that's a good thing. 1 Quote
GeorgePerry Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 The reason I compared aopa to the government is that only the government spends money that any private company which has to consider the market value of what they are doing would consider wasteful and calls it an investment. Its frustrating when people inject there "perceptions" as fact, esp when the opposite is true. This project was funded by a private donor, so it's his money to support his idea. AOPA happens to agree that the concept of breathing new life into old airplanes is a good one. I've said before that 100K is a lot to pay for this airplane and I think we can all agree on that. The point here isn't the business case for a world class refurb'ed 152, its the idea that flying can be affordable and a refurb might be an attractive option if someone wants the next best thing to new. There are a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings about this program, who's paying for it, what AOPA hopes to gain etc. I hope this thread clears some of that up... 1 Quote
aviatoreb Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 Its frustrating when people inject there "perceptions" as fact, esp when the opposite is true. This project was funded by a private donor, so it's his money to support his idea. AOPA happens to agree that the concept of breathing new life into old airplanes is a good one. I've said before that 100K is a lot to pay for this airplane and I think we can all agree on that. The point here isn't the business case for a world class refurb'ed 152, its the idea that flying can be affordable and a refurb might be an attractive option if someone wants the next best thing to new. There are a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings about this program, who's paying for it, what AOPA hopes to gain etc. I hope this thread clears some of that up... Overall, I think refurb is a super concept for GA airplanes. Thinking in terms of whatever we might want, a refurbed version of the same sure is a nice more affordable option than a new version. On this very forum many times there has been discussion of wishing that Mooney would buy up lots of M20J's and "zero-time them". And we guessed all over the place what such a plane would cost. My opinion is it would be $200k for an "as new" M20J. Maybe here on this forum there is not enough love for the 152. For its mission, the 152 is a fabulous airplane. 1 Quote
StinkBug Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 *snip* The point here isn't the business case for a world class refurb'ed 152, its the idea that flying can be affordable and a refurb might be an attractive option if someone wants the next best thing to new. There are a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings about this program, who's paying for it, what AOPA hopes to gain etc. I hope this thread clears some of that up... If that's the point of this program, they are doing a HORRIBLE job of telling people. I agree that refurbing an old plane can be a very good, and economical way to get a new feeling aircraft. However all the hype around this project has been in a totally different direction from "showing people how aviation can be affordable" That right there is why there are so many misconceptions and misunderstandings. You cant expect people to understand what you're doing if you're telling a different story. Quote
GeorgePerry Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 If that's the point of this program, they are doing a HORRIBLE job of telling people. I agree that refurbing an old plane can be a very good, and economical way to get a new feeling aircraft. However all the hype around this project has been in a totally different direction from "showing people how aviation can be affordable" That right there is why there are so many misconceptions and misunderstandings. You cant expect people to understand what you're doing if you're telling a different story. Here's the story...I agree we could do a better job of explaining this is an example of a broader concept and not focus so specifically on the test case, that being a 152 http://www.aopa.org/Community-and-Events/152-Reimagined http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live?watch=%7B21E1D6FB-F921-41FA-A045-E88F1DF43C3B%7D 1 Quote
John Pleisse Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 I think finding a way to modernize old airframes and make flying cheaper will always win. These are great planes, limited on weight, range and how fast they can get to the practice area, but if it creates hundreds of new pilots, why not? I too would expect this kind of refurb costing significantly less. Quote
BigTex Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 I'm a big fan of modernizing planes and flying them forward. Heck, I'm doing it with mine! That being said, I just don't think long term its a viable business. It's no different than restoring old cars. Everyone knows that the one doing the restoration, takes the bath and the purchaser makes out like a bandit. There might be a small niche market where someone falls in love with a given make/model of aircraft and is willing to pay top dollar to bring it to near-new status. But on a large scale, I don't see it. I'm sure there's some folks out there that have some spare bucks that would purchase one of these reimagined 152's because that's what they learned how to fly in. For flight schools, I'm not sure if they'll go that route. They are priced right at where you can by a new LSA with nice glass cockpits and avionics that uses almost no fuel. Kids might lean toward LSA's because of the cool factor. It will be very interesting to see what will be the primary trainer of choice in 10-15 years. Quote
ryoder Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Posted January 22, 2015 I sat in an absolutely stunning LSA last week. The Tecnam Astore is the Ferrari of LSA. Pure sex. Very expensive. The pictures do not do it justice. But who has 180k for a two seater? Quote
John Pleisse Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 AOPA doesn't have a long attention span. They tend to start initiatives like this and loose interest and move on to something else. They'll sell a handfull of these refurbished 152's and that will be it. Tex......if it falls short, I'll bet there aren't enough China-Men in China to buy a massive lot off them. Not long ago, there was a Chinese consortium touring the local training facility down the field from AOPA. George....do a lot of them!!! Oh, and pass along the profits to remember services. Quote
Raptor05121 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 For flight schools, I'm not sure if they'll go that route. They are priced right at where you can by a new LSA with nice glass cockpits and avionics that uses almost no fuel. Kids might lean toward LSA's because of the cool factor. It will be very interesting to see what will be the primary trainer of choice in 10-15 years. I'm no kid but I'm sure I'm the youngest flyer here at 23 years young. I guess it was the upbringing around 60s era aircraft, but the new ones are ugly. I will always and forever love aluminum. Of course, that could change if you stick me in one of these new fiberglass aircraft. Quote
GeorgePerry Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Tex......if it falls short, I'll bet there aren't enough China-Men in China to buy a massive lot off them. Not long ago, there was a Chinese consortium touring the local training facility down the field from AOPA. George....do a lot of them!!! Oh, and pass along the profits to remember services. I hate to keep repeating myself but AOPA isn't making any money from this and no money from member dues are being used. The entire project is funded by a private donor. 1 Quote
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