What do you want with the upcoming Part 23 rewrite

[aviatoreb]

I want lots of things....

 

But how about this:

http://www.popsci.com/xavion-ipad-app-can-make-emergency-airplane-landing-autopilot

 

xavion is test driving an upcoming release of actually steering all the way to auto land an experimental-grade autopilot handling of engine out emergency - or pilot incapacitation, etc. 

 

In some ways that is better than a parachute for the nervous spouse.

 

I see no reason that with a part 23 rewrite - that we can't get that in our Mooneys.  I want the Garmin G3X.

 

...and lots of other cool stuff.

 

What do you want?

[GeorgePerry]

A special category for aircraft under 6000 lbs that allows for advanced avionics, autopilots and engine management/electronic ignition systems to be installed (think Dynon, G3X, Grand Rapids etc) without the "experimental" stigma that goes along with that. 

[aviatoreb]

A special category for aircraft under 6000 lbs that allows for advanced avionics, autopilots and engine management/electronic ignition systems to be installed (think Dynon, G3X, Grand Rapids etc) without the "experimental" stigma that goes along with that. 

 

..what he said.

 

I want Gami Prism.

 

I want airbag seatbelts.

 

I want the G3X.

 

I want that xavion auto land feature for my wife to like my plane more.

 

George - you walk the hallways of AOPA.  What's your opinion of when/if this kind of Part 23 is coming?

[tony]

What George says.  This category would allow  avionics to be certified based on performance history rather than design assurance processes. If one could show that the avionics is indeed safe, then regulatory compliance to DO-178 and DO-254 could waived. 

[cliffy]

With realistic  MTBF numbers, maybe on the factor of  60 min ETOPS  ops, this would be more than ample to have as part of a rewrite of certification standards. To restrict this (and the autopilot) to experimental aircraft only is a crime.

[cliffy]

A thought just came to mind as I was reading this-

Why not just have a requirement to have a cabin placard stating something like "Non-certified equipment installed in this aircraft" just like "experimental" in those aircraft. Has this ever been tossed at the FAA? As stated above- under 6000 lbs gross limitation. 

[GeorgePerry]

 

 

George - you walk the hallways of AOPA.  What's your opinion of when/if this kind of Part 23 is coming?

 

First thing to keep in mind is the common sense and business friendly practices are not common traits within the FAA.  I can tell you the AOPA Government Affairs team is working hard to help shape the 23 rewrite so it actually delivers on the promise of 1/2 the time to certify, 1/2 the costs to the consumer, and all the benefits of safety.  I wish the average AOPA member could see the level of effort that's required and the long hours the Gov Affairs team puts in to make positive progress with the FAA.  It's Herculean!  

 

 

That said the FAA announced last summer they are going to miss the Part 23 deadline by over two years.  So if your holding your breath, I hope you can last until 2017 at the earliest.  Its so disappointing you don't even know.  Our own government at its finest.  These bureaucrats are so risk averse its easy for them to say 'no' because its safer for them to do nothing.  The results are killing our industry and the FAA has no incentive to make positive change happen.  Even when the FAA does do something good, rule changes literally take years because it doesn't just stop there.  Then it has to go through DOT and OMB.  Each step is another huge time consuming hurdle.

 

The really sad part is our elected officials know how bad the FAA and the other agencies are, and they seemly powerless to intervene.  I've seen congressional testimony where Congressman grill the suits from FAA about their history of ineffective leadership and consistently bad track record.  They just shrug and blame sequestration and funding shortfalls.  "Give us more money" is always the FAA's answer.  

 

I don't know what the real answer is.  But I can tell you that I've met several Congressmen and Senators that are members of AOPA's GA caucus and they really do care about "average" pilots.  Most of them use GA to get around their state or district when it's time to get out and meet the voters - So they get it.  

 

Short of firing everyone in the FAA's certification office, the next best thing we as a community can do is continue to write to our elected officials to keep the pressure on.  They do actually look at letters and in many cases reference constituent remarks when they hold hearings.  

 

I know this isn't the rosy, optimistic response you're hoping for, but it's the reality of the system that's currently in place.  AOPA is working hard to make things better, but even when there is broad support, we can only move as fast as Washington will allow. 

[1964-M20E]

My desires are quite simple.  Let me operate my plane the same way as if it was an experimental.  I'd even slap experimental on it in a heart beat if necessary.

[Danb]

George ..it seems the same is happening to revamp or elimination of the 3rd class medical..very discouraging

[N601RX]

Much like the pilot protection act that has been stuck in subcommittee for the last year even thought it has 163 bipartisan co sponsors. When the new congress is seated in a few days the whole process will have to start all over again.

[aaronk25]

It is our problem but it shouldn't be our problem that the FAA has grown so over-burdened in regulation that they can't change there own rules at a quick enough pace to comply with the LAW!!!

IDIOTS.... Ok so now with that said what do I want.

Liquid cool heads and 2 fuel pumps for redundancy, mounted in the belly of the of the airplane at the low fuel level to provide positive pressure to the engine eliminating the need for the 6.5rvp requirement of 100ll for preventing vapor lock.

The liquid cooled heads will remove the need for the 100 octave requirement.

BINGO....I now can burn pump gas. 10% ethanol isn't a problem assuming the fuel isn't past 60 days.

What else??? I want to install the GAMI/tornado alley "Cardinal" turbo system on my EXACT same engine!

I also want the therma wing de-ice system.

Oh how about a 150amp alternator? So I can power a Aux electric heater for rear pax?

That's it for my Santa list!

[aviatoreb]

First thing to keep in mind is the common sense and business friendly practices are not common traits within the FAA.  I can tell you the AOPA Government Affairs team is working hard to help shape the 23 rewrite so it actually delivers on the promise of 1/2 the time to certify, 1/2 the costs to the consumer, and all the benefits of safety.  I wish the average AOPA member could see the level of effort that's required and the long hours the Gov Affairs team puts in to make positive progress with the FAA.  It's Herculean!  

 

 

That said the FAA announced last summer they are going to miss the Part 23 deadline by over two years.  So if your holding your breath, I hope you can last until 2017 at the earliest.  Its so disappointing you don't even know.  Our own government at its finest.  These bureaucrats are so risk averse its easy for them to say 'no' because its safer for them to do nothing.  The results are killing our industry and the FAA has no incentive to make positive change happen.  Even when the FAA does do something good, rule changes literally take years because it doesn't just stop there.  Then it has to go through DOT and OMB.  Each step is another huge time consuming hurdle.

 

The really sad part is our elected officials know how bad the FAA and the other agencies are, and they seemly powerless to intervene.  I've seen congressional testimony where Congressman grill the suits from FAA about their history of ineffective leadership and consistently bad track record.  They just shrug and blame sequestration and funding shortfalls.  "Give us more money" is always the FAA's answer.  

 

I don't know what the real answer is.  But I can tell you that I've met several Congressmen and Senators that are members of AOPA's GA caucus and they really do care about "average" pilots.  Most of them use GA to get around their state or district when it's time to get out and meet the voters - So they get it.  

 

Short of firing everyone in the FAA's certification office, the next best thing we as a community can do is continue to write to our elected officials to keep the pressure on.  They do actually look at letters and in many cases reference constituent remarks when they hold hearings.  

 

I know this isn't the rosy, optimistic response you're hoping for, but it's the reality of the system that's currently in place.  AOPA is working hard to make things better, but even when there is broad support, we can only move as fast as Washington will allow. 

 

I think I will write a letter - rather than complain here.

 

Yeah - all I want to do is spend money (aka stimulate the economy) on safety equipment that the FAA won't let me have (better seat belts and better situational awareness devices) and better fuel management equipment (gami prism - for better fuel economy and less pollution).   Its not like I'm asking to buy drugs...

 

You summarized it well- the nature of beaurocracy is such that it is easier and safer for an individual's career to say no than to say yes.  Time is measured in units of a 30 year career in government, not in terms of getting something done.

[GeorgePerry]

George ..it seems the same is happening to revamp or elimination of the 3rd class medical..very discouraging

 

AOPA is actually making some progress there.  I'm hopeful that before Santa brings my kids Christmas presents again, this'll be done.  See this link.

 

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/November/25/AOPA-promises-to-keep-working-toward-overdue-reform

[carusoam]

I would like the ability to use the exhaust system that other Long Body Mooneys have...

A simple, well known, exhaust system that already goes on the IO550 powered M20S...

The paperwork (STC) for the system doesn't fit on an M20R....

That's my idea of an experimental Mooney.

Some people might call that machine a Standing TN'd O!

Anyone have a spare cowl off an Acclaim?

Having the Class III medical details worked out would make it a tad easier to spend that kind of dough. My administrator of finance is going to look at me funny if I stimulate the economy then don't fly...

I am thrilled we have George at the AOPA. A real aviator's aviator!

We are living in interesting times...

Best regards,

-a-

[ChrisH]

Govt of the people, by the people and for the people. Hows that working for us now. Reality seems to be in todays market Experimental is winning, RV/Lancair/etc. If I can buy one of these (instead of building) and get all the benefits, why can't we do the same with our certified aircraft? Simple answer should be any plane (6000 lbs seems a bit light, an Epic is 7500 max ramp) can be turned 'experimental' and comply with restrictions of that category.

[GeorgePerry]

I am thrilled we have George at the AOPA. A real aviator's aviator!

We are living in interesting times...

Best regards,

-a-

 

Thanks for the kind words…AOPA is a great organization and has undergone some significant changes/improvements over the past year since Mark Baker took the helm.  We are laser focused on serving our members, being accessible, and supporting efforts that improve safety and set regulatory conditions for success.   

 

To be open and honest, I wasn't sure about going to AOPA until I met and talked with Mark and the other members of the leadership team.  Prior to the most recent change of CEO's, I was just as P/O'ed as everyone else about the direction the organization had taken.  I'm glad that things have changed for the better and the organization is more in touch with the members that we are proud to serve and represent.  

[Hank]

We are living in interesting times...

As in the famous Chinese curse?

"May you live in interesting times."

In aviation only terms, I'd rather they be somewhat more boring. No ADs. No missing airliners. No government agencies "incapable" of complying with laws directing their actions. No airplanes crashing into houses and killing pilots, passengers and occupants of the buildings. No new mandated equipment to design, certify and install in addition to everything else (where in our cramped panels are we going to continue to put more equipment?). No FSDOs incapable of saying, "that's a great idea, you can install this right away" without requiring mound$ of te$ting, report$, paper$ and in$pection$ for a switch, a lightbulb or a seatbelt, to say nothing of a radio or GPS.

Outside of aviation, "non-interesting" will rapidly disintegrate into another Little Timmy thread, and the Good Lord knows that one of those is enough!

Fly safe, ya'll . . . boringly and uninterestingly safe.

[bd32322]

I think I can wait for the bureaucracy to roll ... But its very heartening to see AOPA make efforts in the correct direction. I especially love the semi-localized AOPA fly-ins and expos - I hope it stimulates the younger generation to join the ranks of pilots!

Thanks for the good work George and of your colleagues!

[carusoam]

Add to my list...

Seat belt airbags for all M20s...

The STC fits only some M20s...

Some engineering could add them to all...

A perfect level of testing has made a good idea into an unattainable product.

The cycle continues... fewer people will buy them, fewer people will use them, less will be known about the technology....

It would be nice for a category to allow STCs to be spread with a minimum amount of engineering and testing.

Add the category.... I agree that this idea is untested and it may not work as well as I hope...but I am willing to use it. "This aircraft has user specified safety equipment" sounds better than 'experimental'

The 'experimental' decal is intended to inform potential passengers of the status of the aircraft.

I am a bit surprised we don't all have a big 'normal' decal on the side. That would be an interesting conversation each time....yes I am, no your not.....

Propose to use a numbering system in place of funny words.

Class 1: Utility

Class 2: Normal

Class 3: Aerobatic/acrobatic

Class 4: Experimental

Anyone with an iPhone can look up what a class 4 aircraft is. With the tail number, they can look up what the experimental equipment is that is installed...

Include a 2D barcode on the small decal for easy reading/explanation by iPhone....

Of course, none of this should be mandated. It is specifically for good ideas that people want...

Best regards,

-a-

[bd32322]

I want lots of things....

 

But how about this:

http://www.popsci.com/xavion-ipad-app-can-make-emergency-airplane-landing-autopilot

 

xavion is test driving an upcoming release of actually steering all the way to auto land an experimental-grade autopilot handling of engine out emergency - or pilot incapacitation, etc. 

 

In some ways that is better than a parachute for the nervous spouse.

 

I see no reason that with a part 23 rewrite - that we can't get that in our Mooneys.  I want the Garmin G3X.

 

...and lots of other cool stuff.

 

What do you want?

 

I would want almost everything that has been said above plus - 

 

How about an engine compartment fire extinguishing system - some heat activated foam release or something. 

Cabin heater via liquid instead of air and its associated CO leakage ?

Modern switches 

EVS infrared cameras - I was thinking of installing one designed for GA aircraft when I was contemplating building an experimental - pretty awesome for shooting low approaches or flying at night.

[tony]

Short of firing everyone in the FAA's certification office, the next best thing we as a community can do is continue to write to our elected officials to keep the pressure on.  They do actually look at letters and in many cases reference constituent remarks when they hold hearings.  

 

 

Now that's the real answer.....I've written my legislators: Chambliss, Isakson, and Gingrey about third class medical.  From their responses, none of them get it or understand the issues.

[ryoder]

I want experimental operating rules also. Any A&P can do the annual, I can install a G3X, airbags, BRS, autopilot etc. I also think that certified aircraft should still be usable for flight instruction.

If they gave me a path to experimental status temporarily I would take it if that's all I can expect.

[Marauder]

To answer the original question; simple, a much cheaper cost of ownership. They want to know why aviation is dying? We raised smart kids. Us on the other hand, we're not so smart. Who else is dumb enough to spend $100 on rubber donuts?

The truth in the matter is that the FAA has created so much oversight and bureaucracy that it will become a self filling prophecy and they will have no one left to rule over other than themselves.

[bd32322]

To answer the original question; simple, a much cheaper cost of ownership. They want to know why aviation is dying? We raised smart kids. Us on the other hand, we're not so smart. Who else is dumb enough to spend $100 on rubber donuts?

The truth in the matter is that the FAA has created so much oversight and bureaucracy that it will become a self filling prophecy and they will have no one left to rule over other than themselves.

 

Reminds me of a show (BBC) Yes Minister or its follow-on "Yes Prime Minister". In the clip they are talking about a hospital that has no patients but is being "run" by 500 administrative staff maintaining equipment etc. I got reminded of this by your comment about the FAA not having anyone to rule over

 

Watch this 2 min clip for the background

 

And this 2 min clip:

 

Enjoy!

[MB65E]

The list is endless on what one could want. Keep the inspection authorization process, but get rid of the BS envolved with 337's, STC's etc... If an owner wants to install somthing non TSO'd, not PMA'd let it be up to the IA who is signing it off. Not a piece of paper that comes from OKC.

There are some basic saftey principles that will/always apply. I think it is entirelly possible to be self regulated and safer at the same time. Hold the standard, but give some common sense back!

If I wanted an Autopilot installed, let me put one in. I'm not going to fly it if it's not safe!! Having a non TSO'd/PMA'd landing light installed, will never effect the safety of flight, so quit with the paperwork, save some cash, and go fly the darn airplane.

-Matt